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#41 Majestic122

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 08:18 PM

I am necroing this thread, because I seem to be the first atheist that posts in this particular subforum. If anyone wishes to ask me about my beliefs or wants to know what I think of something that a religion says particularly, then fire away. Ask anything, and I really do mean anything you like.

Edited by Majestic122, 02 February 2012 - 08:25 PM.


#42 Karen

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 05:54 PM

I'm very glad you came to the forum! When I created it, I meant for it to be a place where EVERYONE could express their beliefs, following a religion or not.

So my question is, what is your opinion on people who do follow a belief system? In my case, there have been lots of people who think I'm an idiot for following Christianity, but I think a lot of people like to assume they know what the Bible says, or what Christianity is all about. It's frustrating because I would like to show people that God isn't this wrathful, spiteful Being.

Also, if you absolutely had to choose a religion, what do you think you would go for? :)
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#43 Majestic122

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 06:45 PM

I'm very glad you came to the forum! When I created it, I meant for it to be a place where EVERYONE could express their beliefs, following a religion or not.

So my question is, what is your opinion on people who do follow a belief system? In my case, there have been lots of people who think I'm an idiot for following Christianity, but I think a lot of people like to assume they know what the Bible says, or what Christianity is all about. It's frustrating because I would like to show people that God isn't this wrathful, spiteful Being.

Also, if you absolutely had to choose a religion, what do you think you would go for? :)

I'm very anti-prejudice, so I try to value people based on their behaviour towards me, not based on their belief in a higher power. But I'm guessing you won't be satisfied with this answer (I know I wouldn't) so here you go.
I think that people who do follow a belief system should do that if they choose that, but they should be very careful not confuse belief with truth. You can't go and claim something is true just because the Bible says so.
Having said that, I strongly oppose teaching creationism in schools (any school), because evolution has been proven correct. I think strict religious schools should be banned. I have once seen an example in a documentary where literally everything had a reference to religion. It was practically brainwashing. Children's minds work so they believe anything a parent says, up to a certain age. This is to have the highest chance of survival and reproduction (knock, knock, evolution!), for an infant cannot have a critical mind and try to disprove the rule of not going over the edge of a cliff, for example. Therefore, in my opinion, we must be very careful when dealing with teaching children religion.
As for what religion I would choose, that is definitely an interesting question. Pantheism is very interesting, and it would probably be the one I would go for. I like the idea of Nature as God, because nature (and indeed us humans too) is wonderful. Pantheism is actually pretty close to my beliefs right now, except that I don't see nature as God.

#44 Karen

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 12:42 AM

I'm very anti-prejudice, so I try to value people based on their behaviour towards me, not based on their belief in a higher power. But I'm guessing you won't be satisfied with this answer (I know I wouldn't) so here you go.
I think that people who do follow a belief system should do that if they choose that, but they should be very careful not confuse belief with truth. You can't go and claim something is true just because the Bible says so.
Having said that, I strongly oppose teaching creationism in schools (any school), because evolution has been proven correct. I think strict religious schools should be banned. I have once seen an example in a documentary where literally everything had a reference to religion. It was practically brainwashing. Children's minds work so they believe anything a parent says, up to a certain age. This is to have the highest chance of survival and reproduction (knock, knock, evolution!), for an infant cannot have a critical mind and try to disprove the rule of not going over the edge of a cliff, for example. Therefore, in my opinion, we must be very careful when dealing with teaching children religion.
As for what religion I would choose, that is definitely an interesting question. Pantheism is very interesting, and it would probably be the one I would go for. I like the idea of Nature as God, because nature (and indeed us humans too) is wonderful. Pantheism is actually pretty close to my beliefs right now, except that I don't see nature as God.


Mmm, this is true. The Bible is actually a very interesting book, to study and also to learn from. I used to think it was really boring, until I actually started reading it. I think there are lots of things in it that are based around the culture of 2000 years ago, but the Gospels are what modern-day Christianity is (or at least should be) based on. HOWEVER. People's interpretations of the Gospels differ and that is why there are so many problems among different religious. I honestly haven't met one Christian who has exactly the same theology. I personally believe that Jesus is the epitome of Love, which is God, and that we must do our best to spread love by loving our neighbor (ALL of our neighbors), serving, and helping those that can't help themselves. I also think that is Jesus had to choose a political side, he'd probably be more on the socialistic side. I mean, I can't imagine Jesus turning someone away:

"Jesus, please heal me!"
JC - "Sorry, your health insurance plan only covers leprosy, not blindness. And you've already had two exorcisms in the past six months when your plan CLEARLY says that you can only have one"

Somehow, I don't think that would happen. :P

Creationism *sigh* What a topic, no? Hahaha. Well. I believe in evolution, considering that it has been scientifically proven, but I also think that it was God who started evolution, and who created the Big Bang. And no, I don't mean a guy in a white robe with a beard...I just mean a force higher than ourselves, bigger than we can possibly imagine. If you really want to hear all my theology, you can message me lol. I don't want to get into all of it here :P

As for Pantheism, I think it's very good to be thankful for nature but I personally wouldn't consider it God. I think God created nature, of course, and therefore it must be taken care of and appreciated. I also think that we have to give respect to the Earth because it does provide for us.
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#45 Matthewsont

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 07:56 PM

I'm an atheist and therefore have no religion. Have been all my life. Yes I have morals (some :P ) I do have a reason for living. yes I have a reason to be atheist. Yes i have reasons for not being religious. no i don't believe in a deity, and yes i have reasons for it :)

#46 Revan

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 10:10 PM

I'm an atheist and therefore have no religion. Have been all my life. Yes I have morals (some :P ) I do have a reason for living. yes I have a reason to be atheist. Yes i have reasons for not being religious. no i don't believe in a deity, and yes i have reasons for it :)


I, for One, am interested in those reasons. :3 And I'm being completely legitimately serious. Tell Us Your story!

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#47 Matthewsont

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 10:41 PM

Haha wonderful :P

Reasons for living: I enjoy it and it would be an inconvenience to stop. But mainly because I enjoy it. Guess I'm a bit of a Utilitarian at heart :puh:

Reason to be an atheist and not being religious: Well, I guess it's mostly the latter. I don't understand why we (humans) need to see answers in everything immediately. My general perception of religion is a historical one. 10000 years ago when we lived in caves and knew nothing bout what was around us, fine, there was so much unknown that having some all powerful thing which is responsible for it all was useful (yes, responsible, not just the cause. Important word difference). However as the age of reason and age of science drew open and the age of religion closed, we began to understand more and more about what was happening around us. For example, we now know what happened 10^-43 seconds after the big bang. This means that we categorically know that unless God caused the Big Bang, we are not the result of a deity. Following this line, we have proved Genesis wrong. Copernecus (Gellileo) proved the Church wrong when he showed that everything did not revolve around the Earth. Darwin proved religion wrong when he proved Evolution. Each and every time the Church suffers a loss of faith, they draw further back and say, for example, that since no one else knew at the time, how were they supposed to know? The point is that since so much of (I'm picking on Xianity here) has been shown to be wrong, why should we believe any of it? Going back to the start of this long point, why do we need a deity to satisfied in life? I have no NEED of a deity in my life. I'm content as I am.

Deity ^^above

Ultimately, I have no need to believe in a deity, no need to have a religion, and no need to have "faith". I find scientific proof (as is the nature of proof) far more plausable than religion, hence why people who say they're "felt God" irritate me so much because, after digging, they often have very little idea about which they are talking.

Sorry for the length. i'm sure I've missed loads out though :P Any questions class? :P

#48 Karen

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 06:27 PM

Hi Matthew! Thanks for posting, I'm very glad you felt like you could post here. Welcome :D I'm Karen, the mod of this forum. I'm sorry I didn't reply to you sooner, I have been swamped with school and work and observation hours and everything else under the sun.

It is very interesting to look at religion from a historical point (and the Bible as well), I agree! I personally believe that Genesis, and a lot of the numbers in Genesis, are exaggerations of what they should be because people 2000 years ago didn't have a concept of time like we do. For example, in Genesis, Rebecca (Abraham's wife) gave birth when she was 90 years old. I don't think she was literally 90, I think it was their way of saying she was older than the average women giving birth during that time period.

You pose a tough question! Why do we need a deity to be safisfied in life? One of the things you said earlier is that we don't need to see the answers in everything immediately. In Christianity, we definitely don't see the answers in things immediately! When I pray to God, I expect Him to take His sweet time getting back to me :P nothing happens quickly, and this is to help establish faith and patience that everything will turn out okay. The Bible isn't supposed to give us all the answers. It is a point of reference, yes, but we also have to realize that even though it was divinely inspired, it was written by men and all humans are flawed. The only perfect Being is God.

I don't think it's fair to point at the Church and say that it just blames other people for their lack of understanding. As I said before, the Church, like everything except nature, is manmade. There are obviously going to be mistakes and errors and lacks of judgement. The Church today still has many issues surrounding it and as a Christian I don't agree with everything the Church (and by Church I don't mean the Catholic church specifically, I mean some of the leaders surrounding Christianity) says or does, but if I back away, what does that make me? I wouldn't stop loving my mom just because she's made some mistakes in her life. The Church, also, isn't just religious leaders. It's the people that make up the church! WE are the Church, and I think that is so, so important. So when someone looks at the Church we can't just look at the power organizations. We also have to look at what the Church consists of. Do Christians know better today? Some of them, yes. Are there still some that believe the Earth is 9000 years old? Yes. Sometimes it's out of ignorance (I'm sure you know that in some places they just don't teach evolution) but from what I've seen most Christians are fully aware of the science surrounding the Earth's creation (and this is just one example, there are many others like this, I'm sure) but they choose to believe in what the Bible says because it's their faith, it's what they believe in, and if it makes them happy, okay!

Also, many Christians take the basis for a lot of their beliefs from the New Testament, mostly because it focuses on Jesus and His life, the main part of Christianity.

I hope that answered some of your questions or opened up discussion! Feel free to message me at any time, and of course everyone else is free to answer as well.
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#49 Midnight Toker

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 01:27 AM

I don't really belong to one "religion". I am more on the spiritual level. I am a practicing shaman and medium. Yes, most people might think it's wonky or not true but it's what I do. If I were to classify myself, I suppose I fit in with Wiccans/Pagans.

We have a thread on it but it's dead somewhere lol. I guess not enough interest in it. I do practice magic sometimes. It's nothing like what's in the movies or in books. We use different things because we believe they do different things. I have never done black magic and it annoys me when people think all Wiccans do this. In fact, because of our rede (Harm None) we technically cannot do black magic. When you see black magic it is usually Satanists, Santeria or Voodoo. Santeria and Voodoo are not all black, again, for the most part they are good people. I practice some Santeria as well as some Voodoo. I also am learning a more Native American approach but we'll see where that goes.

I suppose all of this is very "new age" but I hate that term.
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#50 Karen

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 04:20 PM

I've actually been researching paganism and wicca just out of personal interest. I was talking with my boyfriend about what I want to do when we move into an apartment together and I said I wanted to do a native american smudging ceremony to get rid of bad energy. If it makes us feel better, why not? If it has actual spiritual properties then it'll work. If not, then I'll just be waving around a stick of sage, you know? No harm, no foul. Learning about smudging led me to research paganism. I had known a bit about it but I wanted to find out more. One thing I've noticed is that at a lot of wiccan ceremonies, they dress up and a lot of the time it seems more for show, you know? Have you ever encountered pagans/shamans that are doing it for the wrong reasons?

I would also like to reinforce that paganism is NOT satanism. To be a satanist, you have to believe that the christian god is dead, and pagans and wiccans don't believe in a specific denomination god - correct me if I'm wrong. I think people just get scared of what they don't know. :)
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#51 Midnight Toker

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 03:51 AM

I can give you some tips on blessing your apartment if you would like. Smudging is for sure one of the strongest ways to bless but there's other ways too. In the pagan belief, we hold that salt neutralizes negative energy. We are all about worshiping nature and salt is one of the purest things we see. Purity is always the way to go. There is also a lot of Christian things you can do to bless your home and protect it from, well, negative energy. Holy water works wonders when used to bless all the doors and windows (this includes doors to rooms). Having a cross over your door way works wonders. I have a friend who is Catholic and she uses holy water and crosses mostly on her home. She also lights up incense to clean the home. She says a prayer over everything.

Blessing once usually doesn't do it permanently. It will help for about 3 months after that, it's time to re-do it. I don't know why it's 3 months but this is what I've noticed. Just some tips to keep in mind or what have you. Faith is really all you need to rid yourself of the negative. Blessing yourself and having something on you that's blessed helps when you aren't in the house. I carry around a Talisman.

The way I see it, religion or faith is just one huge tree. Each of us belong to a different branch but when it boils down to it, it's all about faith. It's all about that. I like to think that in the end we are all worshiping the same God, God just shows Himself or Herself differently. Another funky thought is if all religions have different Gods and they all come together. I don't know. I'm a bit of a hippie. XD

A lot of what we wear is similar to that of what a priest would wear or what a nun would wear. It's all traditional garb. A lot of Wiccan priests and priestesses wear flowing cloaks. Cloaks are used in conjunction to ritual robes. We wear the most comfortable clothing and the most open clothing we can so we can allow the Divine into ourselves. It's important to have an open connection to the Divine at all times when performing a ritual.

http://www.wicca-spi...a_symbols_index
That's a pretty good place to get some general knowledge on symbols. I don't know how familiar you are with our symbols and our customs.

I personally haven't met anyone who has been. My priestess says that she used to have someone in her coven who was doing it for the wrong reasons. He wanted to screw someone over with magic and that is not how we play. Especially not in my coven. We worship the Divine and nothing else. We live to serve her. Needless to say, she kicked him out pretty quick.

I've met my fair share of people who are into religion for the wrong reasons though and I know that one day, I'll meet that one person who is in it for those wrong reasons. I'm prepared for it.

Edited by Midnight Toker, 01 November 2012 - 03:53 AM.

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#52 Karen

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 03:28 PM

There is also a lot of Christian things you can do to bless your home and protect it from, well, negative energy. Holy water works wonders when used to bless all the doors and windows (this includes doors to rooms). Having a cross over your door way works wonders. I have a friend who is Catholic and she uses holy water and crosses mostly on her home. She also lights up incense to clean the home. She says a prayer over everything.


Yup, I've seen this a lot and I've heard it, too. My anthro. prof says her boyfriend's mom is SUPER catholic and there are crosses over every doorway, she prays about everything, etc. At my house, I have a crucifix in my room that's been there forever and I can't bear to take it down, but maybe someday I'll hang a cross that's more my style in there :P

The way I see it, religion or faith is just one huge tree. Each of us belong to a different branch but when it boils down to it, it's all about faith. It's all about that. I like to think that in the end we are all worshiping the same God, God just shows Himself or Herself differently. Another funky thought is if all religions have different Gods and they all come together. I don't know. I'm a bit of a hippie. XD


I think the same thing; it's nice to know that there are other people besides my boyfriend who think the same! I think there is One God but He is comprised of many different beings and he brought all religions/faiths to the earth in the forms of prophets, world changers, etc, so that we can be better people. I also think He gave us nature for a reason, not so that it could be destroyed.

I was thinking a few weeks ago about Native American religion(s) and how, if Christian colonialism/manifest destiny hadn't taken over and people hadn't essentially eradicated most native peoples, the world would probably be less polluted, more connected to nature, and so on. There is something within pagan religions that abrahamic religions lack: the connection to the earth and to nature. Christianity doesn't emphasize it, and I've never seen it in any other abrahamic religion. Not to say it doesn't exist, but it isn't common. The concept of having a spirit within plants, places, and the earth is something that doesn't appear often, but I think it should.

A lot of what we wear is similar to that of what a priest would wear or what a nun would wear. It's all traditional garb. A lot of Wiccan priests and priestesses wear flowing cloaks. Cloaks are used in conjunction to ritual robes. We wear the most comfortable clothing and the most open clothing we can so we can allow the Divine into ourselves. It's important to have an open connection to the Divine at all times when performing a ritual.


I had a chat with my friend who's wiccan yesterday, and she told me about the cloacks and she said that's the one stereotype, so to speak, that she's okay with, just because the cloaks, especially black cloaks, can cleanse the aura. Did I get it right? Hahaha :P She's awesome though, and she's been a really good resource for me.


I personally haven't met anyone who has been. My priestess says that she used to have someone in her coven who was doing it for the wrong reasons. He wanted to screw someone over with magic and that is not how we play. Especially not in my coven. We worship the Divine and nothing else. We live to serve her. Needless to say, she kicked him out pretty quick.

I've met my fair share of people who are into religion for the wrong reasons though and I know that one day, I'll meet that one person who is in it for those wrong reasons. I'm prepared for it.


I think people misunderstand wicca and paganism in general because of the terminology sometimes, like using the word "spell" - my friend described it to me as a prayer or a blessing. It's pretty much the same thing, it's like an intention for someone or something. She also said the coolest thing about Wicca was that it helped her look into herself and confront painful things and accept them and love herself for it. Not many people can or will do that. I do that on my own time; I'm a big fan of introspection :P

Earlier this year, at a Christian Fellowship meeting that I stopped going to because of many reasons, the guy who was co-leading the meeting was like, "Before christian fellowship there were several "cults" on campus, blah blah blah...". I told my friend about it and she said there was a wiccan group on campus about five or so years ago that was made up of good people but there were a couple people that went for the wrong reasons and so it gave them a bad name. Eventually, the club had to be disbanded, which I think is a shame. So yeah, I agree with you that there are people that do it for the wrong reasons, and there are people who don't understand who give wicca a bad name.

I'm thinking of starting an interfaith group on campus for next semester, and I want it to not only be a place for open dialogue, but I also want to go to different ceremonies, religious events, and do service as a group. I really want it to be all inclusive and just a place for people to express their religion and feel safe. I think there are more people on campus than I think that would be into that!!
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#53 Midnight Toker

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 03:50 PM

Yup, I've seen this a lot and I've heard it, too. My anthro. prof says her boyfriend's mom is SUPER catholic and there are crosses over every doorway, she prays about everything, etc. At my house, I have a crucifix in my room that's been there forever and I can't bear to take it down, but maybe someday I'll hang a cross that's more my style in there :P

Yep! Tall tell sign. lol My grandmother is a Born-Again but she's not.. I dunno, I can't think of a good word. She's not snobby about it. Anyway, she's the one who actually taught me all about house cleansing. She taught me the Christian way and then my mom taught me the Wiccan way. We work really well together when we get together to pray. It's interesting how two different things have so much in common. People over look it.

lol! Get a cool cross. XD I actually have a cross that I can't get rid of. It belonged to my great-grandfather. I never knew him but my grandmother gave it to me. I have it hanging in my room. :)


I think the same thing; it's nice to know that there are other people besides my boyfriend who think the same! I think there is One God but He is comprised of many different beings and he brought all religions/faiths to the earth in the forms of prophets, world changers, etc, so that we can be better people. I also think He gave us nature for a reason, not so that it could be destroyed.

Yes! Exactly! That's how I see it. It would be so boring if we only had one religion, one skin colour, one nationality, one sexual orientation, one identity.. The way I see it, God built everything. So He built biology. Biology favors variety. However, it's a shame that society didn't evolve in the same matter. :( I think there's a reason for everything though. So, there has got to be a reason for the hate in the world. I'm guessing it's there to remind us how important love and tolerance truly are.

I was thinking a few weeks ago about Native American religion(s) and how, if Christian colonialism/manifest destiny hadn't taken over and people hadn't essentially eradicated most native peoples, the world would probably be less polluted, more connected to nature, and so on. There is something within pagan religions that abrahamic religions lack: the connection to the earth and to nature. Christianity doesn't emphasize it, and I've never seen it in any other abrahamic religion. Not to say it doesn't exist, but it isn't common. The concept of having a spirit within plants, places, and the earth is something that doesn't appear often, but I think it should.

I think so too. It's one of the main reasons why Wicca intrigued me. Before I was Wiccan, I was Christian and the lack of nature in the religion was weird to me. I had a stint where I was agnostic and then atheist. -_- That was my fault for listening to my ex-fiance and having her control my life. I'm glad I'm back to where I was. I was lost without my faith. :\


I had a chat with my friend who's wiccan yesterday, and she told me about the cloacks and she said that's the one stereotype, so to speak, that she's okay with, just because the cloaks, especially black cloaks, can cleanse the aura. Did I get it right? Hahaha :P She's awesome though, and she's been a really good resource for me.

This is what is so awesome about Wicca. XD We each have different interpretations of things. The older wiccans I know are more into the symbolism and what the clothing does. Younger wiccans tend not to like that sort of thing cause it feels stereotypical. XD Black is the colour of cleansing for us. It takes away the negative energy. Red is the colour of passion and lust. Pink is romance and it up lifts moods. And so forth. :) So the colour is what the cloak does but the cloak itself is used because it's light and airy (like the Air element) which allows the Divine into us. The Divine, for me, is the God and Goddess plus mother Gaia and so forth.

I think people misunderstand wicca and paganism in general because of the terminology sometimes, like using the word "spell" - my friend described it to me as a prayer or a blessing. It's pretty much the same thing, it's like an intention for someone or something. She also said the coolest thing about Wicca was that it helped her look into herself and confront painful things and accept them and love herself for it. Not many people can or will do that. I do that on my own time; I'm a big fan of introspection :P

Yes. Or the way we conduct our business. Outsiders view it as something evil because they aren't educated about it. It's that whole fear of the unknown thing.Let me tell you, it's not just Christians who don't get it, it's everyone. I even had an atheist size me up and tell me what I was doing was wrong. o.O I was like "You don't believe that this has power so how can it be wrong?" -_- He couldn't answer me. lol

Earlier this year, at a Christian Fellowship meeting that I stopped going to because of many reasons, the guy who was co-leading the meeting was like, "Before christian fellowship there were several "cults" on campus, blah blah blah...". I told my friend about it and she said there was a wiccan group on campus about five or so years ago that was made up of good people but there were a couple people that went for the wrong reasons and so it gave them a bad name. Eventually, the club had to be disbanded, which I think is a shame. So yeah, I agree with you that there are people that do it for the wrong reasons, and there are people who don't understand who give wicca a bad name.

Oh come on! LOL Why do people think Wicca is a "cure all" or a "we place hexes on people". I blame Hollywood. I mean, I love Harry Potter but someone asked me if I believed I could do what Harry does. I was like :blink:. We don't place hexes on people. It's against our religion to do so. If someone is using magic to do that, then they aren't Wiccan. :\ Oi, people annoy me. XD!

I'm thinking of starting an interfaith group on campus for next semester, and I want it to not only be a place for open dialogue, but I also want to go to different ceremonies, religious events, and do service as a group. I really want it to be all inclusive and just a place for people to express their religion and feel safe. I think there are more people on campus than I think that would be into that!!

That would be awesome! I think more people need to think like you do. I wish I knew more people like you. I only have a few people I can count on one hand who are this awesome. LOL

I would so go to something like that. I wish we had something like that here in Miami!
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#54 Fiorenzo

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 05:10 PM

I'd describe myself as an atheist. I don't believe in any god, but I'm not one of those atheists who criticise you for believing in a god. It's none of my business what you believe in, and to be honest as long as you're happy then I'm happy. I don't really see religion as a barrier between who I like and who I don't like, on the same level as race or sexuality. I'd be friends with a gay black buddhist and it wouldn't bother me. We're all humans. I dislike people that are douchebags, not people that believe in a god. :P

On the subject of sexuality, how do all you religious people feel about homosexuality? I'm curious to know where the different religions stand on it.

Edited by Fiorenzo, 02 November 2012 - 05:11 PM.

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#55 Midnight Toker

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 07:51 PM

I'd describe myself as an atheist. I don't believe in any god, but I'm not one of those atheists who criticise you for believing in a god. It's none of my business what you believe in, and to be honest as long as you're happy then I'm happy. I don't really see religion as a barrier between who I like and who I don't like, on the same level as race or sexuality. I'd be friends with a gay black buddhist and it wouldn't bother me. We're all humans. I dislike people that are douchebags, not people that believe in a god. :P

I agree with you there. Glad to see that you are so open-minded. I wish more people were like you as well. We need love in this world, not bias or hate.

On the subject of sexuality, how do all you religious people feel about homosexuality? I'm curious to know where the different religions stand on it.

Oh dear, that's a can of worms right there. I know we had a thread about this in this very section of the board and it kinda turned into a flame war in some areas and a heated debate in other areas.

Some people on here think that it's a sin while others accept it wholeheartedly. It makes me sad when people still think of homosexuality as a sin. I really think that it was placed in the Bible that way because while it is the word of God, a lot of it was written by men who were afraid of the unknown.

People pick and choose what they want out of the Bible and that's fine. It's a great book that lends strength and faith however I find it a bit overwhelming when people use it to exclude others. I don't think the Bible is something to be taken literally, it's mostly figurative. This goes for the Quran and other holy texts as well.

It's also quite confusing. In one section, man should not lay with man but in another section, Paul states that homosexuality is not a sin but it is unclean. It's also confusing because Jesus was for all intinsive purposes a hippie. He didn't care who you were, he loved you. I don't know. When I was following Christianity, I followed Christ's word. Love, understanding and tolerance.

Edited by Midnight Toker, 02 November 2012 - 07:51 PM.

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#56 Midnight Toker

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 08:15 PM

I can't edit my post. If a mod sees this, could you please do me the favor of adding this to my preious post? Thanks!

I posted this in the said thread and I wanted to share it here:

That, in fact, was the case among the Sodomites (Genesis 19), whose experience is frequently cited by modern anti-gay critics. The Sodomites wanted to rape the visitors whom Lot, the one just man in the city, welcomed in hospitality for the night.

The Bible itself is lucid on the sin of Sodom: pride, lack of concern for the poor and needy (Ezekiel 16:48-49); hatred of strangers and cruelty to guests (Wisdom 19:13); arrogance (Sirach/Ecclesiaticus 16:8); evildoing, injustice, oppression of the widow and orphan (Isaiah 1:17); adultery (in those days, the use of another man’s property), and lying (Jeremiah 23:12).

But nowhere are same-sex acts named as the sin of Sodom. That intended gang rape only expressed the greater sin, condemned in the Bible from cover to cover: hatred, injustice, cruelty, lack of concern for others. Hence, Jesus says “Love your neighbor as yourself” (Matthew 19:19; Mark 12:31); and “By this will they know you are my disciples” (John 13:35).

How inverted these values have become! In the name of Jesus, evangelicals and Catholic bishops make sex the Christian litmus test and are willing to sacrifice the social safety net in return.

I agree with this Priest. I wish more people would.

Also:

The longest biblical passage on male-male sex is Romans 1:26-27: "Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another."

The Greek term para physin has been translated unnatural; it should read atypical or unusual. In the technical sense, yes, the Stoic philosophers did use para physin to mean unnatural, but this term also had a widespread popular meaning. It is this latter meaning that informs Paul's writing. It carries no ethical condemnation.

Compare the passage on male-male sex to Romans 11:24. There, Paul applies the term para physin to God. God grafted the Gentiles into the Jewish people, a wild branch into a cultivated vine. Not your standard practice! An unusual thing to do — atypical, nothing more. The anti-gay "unnatural" hullabaloo rests on a mistranslation.

Besides, Paul used two other words to describe male-male sex: dishonorable (1:24, 26) and unseemly (1:27). But for Paul, neither carried ethical weight. In 2 Corinthians 6:8 and 11:21, Paul says that even he was held in dishonor — for preaching Christ. Clearly, these words merely indicate social disrepute, not truly unethical behavior.


-Source: http://religion.blog...-homosexuality/

Edited by Midnight Toker, 02 November 2012 - 08:19 PM.

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#57 Arie

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 04:59 PM

On the subject of sexuality, how do all you religious people feel about homosexuality? I'm curious to know where the different religions stand on it.


My religion, Judaism, is not very supportive of homosexuality. I personally have no problem with it. I am a big supporter. I am very pro-gay marriage. I have a lot of friends who are gay. My feeling is that it is not my job to judge whether or not someone is doing the "right" thing. I don't judge anyone. I support my friends for their choices as best I can. It has never really effected my religious beliefs. I have been able to fit the two together fine. I remain a devoted, religious Jew.

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#58 Karen

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 12:11 AM

My religion, Judaism, is not very supportive of homosexuality. I personally have no problem with it. I am a big supporter. I am very pro-gay marriage. I have a lot of friends who are gay. My feeling is that it is not my job to judge whether or not someone is doing the "right" thing. I don't judge anyone. I support my friends for their choices as best I can. It has never really effected my religious beliefs. I have been able to fit the two together fine. I remain a devoted, religious Jew.


I think that's pretty common with young followers of religions now! I think that more young people are realizing they can be devoted to their religion but also change with society. It's very important to be adaptable!
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#59 Midnight Toker

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 03:07 AM

My religion, Judaism, is not very supportive of homosexuality. I personally have no problem with it. I am a big supporter. I am very pro-gay marriage. I have a lot of friends who are gay. My feeling is that it is not my job to judge whether or not someone is doing the "right" thing. I don't judge anyone. I support my friends for their choices as best I can. It has never really effected my religious beliefs. I have been able to fit the two together fine. I remain a devoted, religious Jew.

I thought that the Jewish faith was more open to it. Back in High School I had a friend who was Jewish and her family was really open and cool about everything. We had a gay guy in our group of friends and her mom was always super open and nice to him. Does it depend on the branch of Judaism?
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#60 Arie

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 03:17 AM

I thought that the Jewish faith was more open to it. Back in High School I had a friend who was Jewish and her family was really open and cool about everything. We had a gay guy in our group of friends and her mom was always super open and nice to him. Does it depend on the branch of Judaism?


Judaism itself... not really. It does sort of depend on the sect of Judaism. Meaning, I am orthodox so I follow the old testament very closely keep all of the laws. I believe that those laws are binding. Conservative and reform Judaism don't follow everything as closely. They view the old testament as more of a guide then actual law. This is very fast explanation. There are also more sects. As I am sure you are aware, the old testament is not exactly pro-gay. Thus, most orthodox (or more religious) Jews are not always so excepting. I am. Most people I know are because we are Modern Orthodox. Which means we accept the modern world and adapt to it. I hope that makes sense. So the friend you had was probably not so observant. Which is why he was more open to it. I think it also depends on the generation. My father, for example, is pretty homophobic and he has said some not great things about homosexuals. I am more open and accepting to it. I don't judge my father the same way I don't judge anyone who is gay. My point being is that there are many different factors that can go into this belief. It is hard to generalize in Judaism since it such a personal belief. But, when you break it down to our laws... its complicated. I think, I may be rusty on this, the bottom line belief in Judaism is that G-D accepts those who are gay. It is okay to be gay, he created those who are gay. But, it is not okay to act upon it. I am not going to go farther into detail about that. I don't want to start a big debate about this subject. I don't feel that I know enough on it to be able to explain it. But, I think that is the simplest way to explain the idea. I hope that all makes sense!

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