Exorcism

[Karen]

So I decided to start this topic because it has always been of interest to me and it has always received a lot of controversy.

The Catholic Church, from what I have read, is usually the Church that does exorcisms, and they specially train priests to do them. Exorcisms exist in many other cultures, especially in religions in Africa, Asia, etc, and there are many different methods to perform an exorcism. I have read some really creepy stories about them

 

The definition of an exorcism is: Exorcism (from Late Latin exorcismus, from Greek á¼Î¾Î¿Ïκισμός, exorkismos - binding by oath) is the religious practice of evicting demons or other spiritual entities from a person or place which they are believed to have possessed. Depending on the spiritual beliefs of the exorcist, this may be done by causing the entity to swear an oath, performing an elaborate ritual, or simply by commanding it to depart in the name of a higher power. The practice is quite ancient and part of the belief system of many cultures and religions. Wikipedia

 

It is really interesting to see how it is common throughout all the major religions and in minor ones as well.

 

Do any of you believe in demonic possession? I'm honestly not sure what I believe, since many people who get exorcised have shown signs of mental disability like hysteria, schizophrenia, etc. But I think it really is something creepy to think about! I'm getting the jitters just typing it lol.

[130671]

RRRRRRRRRRRRRR......!

 

*Head rotates 360°!*

 

[Karen]

Hhahaha chris, thank you for your legitimate answer

 

In all honesty, I don't think the whole head thing happens. xD

[130671]

ROAR!

 

How dare u suggest such a thing to the great&awesome unholy Chris, little mortal!

 

Lol

[i love emma]

Im sorry, i dont believe in this because faith healers claim to do this and people stop taking Medication and can die without it. Check out my Faith Healers thread if you want to know more.

[Emmas Friend]

I must admit, The Exorcist was a very creepy movie, but it was for entertainment only.

 

Exorcisms take place in many countries, different cultures have their own beliefs on them. Is it possible for someone to have the Devil or demons inside them ?, and do exorcisms actually work ? Or is it just a Mental Health issue ?

[Monkey Cartwheels]

My dad has had a demon in him. It came from a Maori curse called a Makutu curse which the Maori used to place over their burial grounds to protect the spirits from other tribes, grave robbers etc...

He was doing bulldozer close to an old bruial ground, thats how he got it.

He got so sick the point that he couldnt eat and barely walk, until he was prayed over by an old Maori man from his church who knew what it was. When they prayed for dad a spider the size of a dinner plate came from his stomach and crawled out the window. When it was there they said it smelt like rotten meat.

 

So yeah, exorcisms are true and not a load of rubbish.

[sarahelizabeth]

oh I belive in them because when there is heaven there is also hell.. I believe in this..

[flying kiwi]

Im sorry, i dont believe in this because faith healers claim to do this and people stop taking Medication and can die without it. Check out my Faith Healers thread if you want to know more.

 

Do faith healers do exorcisms? I didn't realise, although just because some are fake doesn't mean they all are.

 

 

However, personally I don't know if I believe this or not, makes for some creepy films, but yeah-I'd almost go as far as saying I don't believe, but I've never experienced or known anyone to experience anything like it. That doesn't however mean it doesn't exist, I'm sure there's plenty I haven't experienced but that doesn't make it fake.

[Lady Deadpool]

I just wanna know how a demon enters someone? I mean how do they choose who they're going to possess? Based on what? Aren't we all protected?

[Arie]

I don't believe in any of this sort of stuff, and yes I do find it rubbish. Before you all start attacking me (lol) remember I am Jewish, we dont believe in demons. Idk, it's all seems like a bad horror movie to me. I can't believe that a demon could be inside someone ect. It's just a funny concept in my mind. I don't mean to say that I find anyone ridiculous for believing in it. Of course I respect everyone and their beliefs. I am just explaining my view. Sorry ifvthis comes out badly!!

[i love emma]

Do faith healers do exorcisms? I didn't realise, although just because some are fake doesn't mean they all are.

Yeah i agree but when you look deep into wht they do you start to think that maybe Faith healers are a big scam. Likei have said.the program -mircles for sale explains a lot.

Even if it is real people have died from not taking medicine and been blamed for not recovering because they didnt have enoug faith or give enough money.

[Karen]

My dad has had a demon in him. It came from a Maori curse called a Makutu curse which the Maori used to place over their burial grounds to protect the spirits from other tribes, grave robbers etc...

He was doing bulldozer close to an old bruial ground, thats how he got it.

He got so sick the point that he couldnt eat and barely walk, until he was prayed over by an old Maori man from his church who knew what it was. When they prayed for dad a spider the size of a dinner plate came from his stomach and crawled out the window. When it was there they said it smelt like rotten meat.

 

So yeah, exorcisms are true and not a load of rubbish.

 

That's actually really creepy, and I think a lot of people forget that evil exists EVERYWHERE, whether it be in the form of a demon, or spirit, or just an evil person. It's really interesting to see how the thought of exorcism isn't always about the devil or satan's demons, so to speak, it can occur in all cultures and religions.

 

I just wanna know how a demon enters someone? I mean how do they choose who they're going to possess? Based on what? Aren't we all protected?

 

Hmm well, from what I've read, demons choose people who are weaker inside, like addicts or something like that, and maybe people who have weaker faith, too. I'm not really sure how that works in all honesty, but I would like to find out. Looking it up gives me the heebie-jeebies though

 

I don't believe in any of this sort of stuff, and yes I do find it rubbish. Before you all start attacking me (lol) remember I am Jewish, we dont believe in demons. Idk, it's all seems like a bad horror movie to me. I can't believe that a demon could be inside someone ect. It's just a funny concept in my mind. I don't mean to say that I find anyone ridiculous for believing in it. Of course I respect everyone and their beliefs. I am just explaining my view. Sorry ifvthis comes out badly!!

 

That's really cool, Arie! Sometimes, I'm not sure whether I believe in hell or Satan or demons or anything like that. But then I think, there is good, so there is also evil. Even if it's not the devil or anything, I think there is definitely stuff on the "other side" that is NOT good, and it manifests itself in different ways. I personally find it interesting that the Catholic Church trains special priests in the rite of exorcism and it's like, a really special and select thing. I think evil can come in many forms, and it's not always the form of a demon or Satan.

[Monkey Cartwheels]

I just wanna know how a demon enters someone? I mean how do they choose who they're going to possess? Based on what? Aren't we all protected?

Put it this way, I KNOW that I will never have an evil spirit in me. I know this because I know my God wont let one in and harm me, they could bug the hell out of me on the out side, or make their presence strong around me, but one will NEVER EVER be in me.

I aint allowing one in, and God aint gonna let one in. If your open to it then they can get in, if you have any doubt that one can then you are more open to it. I dont not think about demons, but I dont ever think about if one got in me because that isnt going to happen.

 

I don't believe in any of this sort of stuff, and yes I do find it rubbish. Before you all start attacking me (lol) remember I am Jewish, we dont believe in demons. Idk, it's all seems like a bad horror movie to me. I can't believe that a demon could be inside someone ect. It's just a funny concept in my mind. I don't mean to say that I find anyone ridiculous for believing in it. Of course I respect everyone and their beliefs. I am just explaining my view. Sorry ifvthis comes out badly!!

I didnt know that Jewish people didnt believe in that side of things. What is it about it that you dont believe or find hard to believe?

 

That's actually really creepy, and I think a lot of people forget that evil exists EVERYWHERE, whether it be in the form of a demon, or spirit, or just an evil person. It's really interesting to see how the thought of exorcism isn't always about the devil or satan's demons, so to speak, it can occur in all cultures and religions.

Evil is everywhere and plays a HUGE factor in our lives. I believe that I have been given a greater sense than others about the spiritual world because I believe that we have all been given a "God given gift" so to speak. Something that we are all given at birth to build up "Gods army" as said in the bible.

I have always been able to feel the presence of something evil around. I get a massively uneasy feeling in my stomach and feel VERY awkward, God has really blessed me in helping me to find and bring out this gift.

But your right, people forget about it and leave themselves open to it.

Although what happened to my dad was a result of a ritual of a different culture, I still believe that it was the work of Satan. No one is better at deception than Satan and I believe that all spirits and curses from different cultures are just demons that are passing off as protector spirits of cultures and relatives etc.

[Arie]

Karen, well we do believe that bad people get punshished. To us, G-D is not physical. Therefore, there is no physical heaven or hell. When you die your soul either reunites as part of G-D or it is cut off. Meaning, your soul basically dies/is destroyed. It's very different from christianity ect. I do agree that there is evil in the world, but to me that evil is human.

Yes it definitely interesting that the church trains people. I didn't know that! To be honest, it kind of creeps me out.

 

Joe, it's not that I find itvhard to believe in... I don't believe in it because that's not me religions belief. We don't believe in demons or anything like that. We don't believe in a physical hell or a devil. If a person is evil, it is because they are evil not because of a demon inside them. Idk, to me that seems like taking away free will. Like, every evil person cant help it they just act like that because of a demon. We believe that every single soul is responcible for it's own actions. Idk I feel like it's an excuse to not own up to your own mistakes. Forgive me if I have offended you in any way! I am fully aware that this post can be offensive and I assure you that is 100% not my intention. But, I don't want to lie to you I want to share my full opinion!! Lol and I trust that you fully understand my intentions. I of course find your views and beliefs on this subject fascinating! I never knew people really believed in this, I guess it's my ignorance... So please forgive that. I just thought it exsisted in movies only. So thank you for opening my eyes!

[Lady Deadpool]

 

Hmm well, from what I've read, demons choose people who are weaker inside, like addicts or something like that, and maybe people who have weaker faith, too. I'm not really sure how that works in all honesty, but I would like to find out. Looking it up gives me the heebie-jeebies though

Well in this case all Atheists or addicts should be like possessed or something. I don't quite get it myself.

 

My grandma knew a possessed woman. Doctos and her family tried for years to prove that she was being mental or epileptic or something but they couldn't. They also couldn't prove why she was going nuts everytime she passed by Churches. The weirdest thing, she kept screaming everyone's secrets. The priest who was about to perform the exorcism, before he started she started saying bad things he had done since he was like 5 years old. Things no one knew lol They also said that the demon has to get out through a specific part of your body and then this part is destroyed. The demon came out of her eye and the eye was destroyed. She's okay now..i think. The majority of people can't make it through i've heard. She tries to raise money and build 3 Churches from what i've heard. I've seen that woman once in the bus actually some time ago. She was wearing a patch covering her one eye.

 

 

 

Karen, well we do believe that bad people get punshished. To us, G-D is not physical. Therefore, there is no physical heaven or hell. When you die your soul either reunites as part of G-D or it is cut off. Meaning, your soul basically dies/is destroyed. It's very different from christianity ect. I do agree that there is evil in the world, but to me that evil is human.

 

But isn't this a bit unfair? I mean let's say there is a murderer a raper or a really really bad person, who does so many bad things on Earth and ending up not being punished or caught until he dies. So they only punishment he gets is nothing? His soul will be destroyed/dead and he won't feel anything?

Edited May 16, 2011 by He is Not Purple

[Arie]

But isn't this a bit unfair? I mean let's say there is a murderer a raper or a really really bad person, who does so many bad things on Earth and ending up not being punished or caught until he dies. So they only punishment he gets is nothing? His soul will be destroyed/dead and he won't feel anything?

 

By your logic isn't it unfair to blame all your mistakes on a demon? Because basically your saying that a really bad person has no control over himself, it's a demon. So then why would anyone get punished ever? It's not their fault....

I am not saying a person won't get punished on earth, he may. But it won't be straight out because we don't believe that G-D makes direct connections with earth. It will be through some other natural way. We believe in a natural order and in free will. Too put a demon in someone is hardly natural and is completely taking away someone's free will. We just don't believe in that.

Also, you have to understand that in Judaism your soul is everything. We believe in a certain reincarnation. We believe that our soul is our essence and that our bodies are just vessels. We believe that G-D is a spiritual being that is above all physicality. So for us, a soul to be cut of is a big deal. If your soul is cut off, the end... Game over forever. You don't get to experience the world to come (thats the name we use for our version of heaven) and you never come back. That's a huge deal! that's hardly nothing. It's not about feeling, You don't need to feel pain to be punished. It's not a physical punishment it's spiritual. We don't focus on physicality or materialism we focus on spirituality.

[Monkey Cartwheels]

Joe, it's not that I find itvhard to believe in... I don't believe in it because that's not me religions belief. We don't believe in demons or anything like that. We don't believe in a physical hell or a devil. If a person is evil, it is because they are evil not because of a demon inside them. Idk, to me that seems like taking away free will. Like, every evil person cant help it they just act like that because of a demon. We believe that every single soul is responcible for it's own actions. Idk I feel like it's an excuse to not own up to your own mistakes. Forgive me if I have offended you in any way! I am fully aware that this post can be offensive and I assure you that is 100% not my intention. But, I don't want to lie to you I want to share my full opinion!! Lol and I trust that you fully understand my intentions. I of course find your views and beliefs on this subject fascinating! I never knew people really believed in this, I guess it's my ignorance... So please forgive that. I just thought it exsisted in movies only. So thank you for opening my eyes!

I see what you mean about blaming your ways on demonic possession, but I think that you see it as a different way to me.

To me demonic possession isnt like you have no control over your body or mind, but it can effect the way you act in certain ways. Like some testimonies that Ive heard, people have heard voices telling them to do bad and sinful things, or like in my dads case he got sick to the point where he couldnt eat or walk. Or in a way where it isnt exactly "inside" you as much as with you, like following people around.

Its real hard to explain without sounding like a crazy loon.

 

And dont worry, Im not offended. Im hard to offened

[Lady Deadpool]

By your logic isn't it unfair to blame all your mistakes on a demon? Because basically your saying that a really bad person has no control over himself, it's a demon. So then why would anyone get punished ever? It's not their fault....

I am not saying a person won't get punished on earth, he may. But it won't be straight out because we don't believe that G-D makes direct connections with earth. It will be through some other natural way. We believe in a natural order and in free will. Too put a demon in someone is hardly natural and is completely taking away someone's free will. We just don't believe in that.

Also, you have to understand that in Judaism your soul is everything. We believe in a certain reincarnation. We believe that our soul is our essence and that our bodies are just vessels. We believe that G-D is a spiritual being that is above all physicality. So for us, a soul to be cut of is a big deal. If your soul is cut off, the end... Game over forever. You don't get to experience the world to come (thats the name we use for our version of heaven) and you never come back. That's a huge deal! that's hardly nothing. It's not about feeling, You don't need to feel pain to be punished. It's not a physical punishment it's spiritual. We don't focus on physicality or materialism we focus on spirituality.

Err you talk about Exorcism on that comment. I got why you don't believe in it, my questions didn't have to do with demons, it was a general question about your religion because you said above that good guys reunite with God and just nothing happens to bad guys; their soul is just destroyed/dies.

No one talked about materialism. In my religion your soul is everything too. We yern to go back to where we belong, but there is some form of justice for all the people who were "evil" if i may say. :/ And our Hell is a spiritual punishment as well, but the soul is "alive" so it can understand it. That's why i said it seems unfair if the bad gyus' souls just dies. Maybe by "dies" you meant something different.

[Arie]

Joe, that's very interesting! Thank you for clarifying that for me! Even though I don't believe in it I di find it very fascinating.

 

Dina, I don't believe in it because it's not part of my religion. Once again I will explain, having your soul cut off is not nothing. In fact, it's pretty offensive to call that nothing. Also, as I said in my post above, I never said there was no punishment on earth. But, we don't believe in demons and we believe in natural order. But, the ultimate punishment is for your soul to be cut off. I am shocked that a religious person could consider that nothing. But I guess ultimately we will have to agree to disagree. After all, we are different religions so obviously we will have very different beliefs.

[Lady Deadpool]

Joe, that's very interesting! Thank you for clarifying that for me! Even though I don't believe in it I di find it very fascinating.

 

Dina, I don't believe in it because it's not part of my religion. Once again I will explain, having your soul cut off is not nothing. In fact, it's pretty offensive to call that nothing. Also, as I said in my post above, I never said there was no punishment on earth. But, we don't believe in demons and we believe in natural order. But, the ultimate punishment is for your soul to be cut off. I am shocked that a religious person could consider that nothing. But I guess ultimately we will have to agree to disagree. After all, we are different religions so obviously we will have very different beliefs.

Hunny you don't even get what i am saying. What i said has NOTHING to do with Exorcism and Demons. Stop mentioning them. It was a general religion question what i asked. I just asked it here and not in the Judaism topic because you mentioned this whole soul here.

 

I also never said you don't believe in Earth punishment. I just said an example " IF a bad guy ends up not being punished here on Earth by humans laws, just IF by chance, then it wouldn't be unfair to not have a spiritual punishment in the afterlife. That's all.

Now i didn't know you believe in reincarnation of the soul -i read that in the other topic just now- in which case yes it is bad for the soul to perish or to be cut off. That's why it seemed to be a bit unfair that the only thing an evil person was gonna suffer would be for his soul to vanish or something.

Edited May 17, 2011 by He is Not Purple

[Arie]

Hunny you don't even get what i am saying. What i said has NOTHING to do with Exorcism and Demons. Stop mentioning them. It was a general religion question what i asked. I just asked it here and not in the Judaism topic because you mentioned this whole soul here.

 

I also never said you don't believe in Earth punishment. I just said an example " IF a bad guy ends up not being punished here on Earth by humans laws, just IF by chance, then it wouldn't be unfair to not have a spiritual punishment in the afterlife. That's all.

Now i didn't know you believe in reincarnation of the soul -i read that in the other topic just now- in which case yes it is bad for the soul to perish or to be cut off. That's why it seemed to be a bit unfair that the only thing an evil person was gonna suffer would be for his soul to vanish or something.

 

Actually I do understand exactly what you are saying. Please calm down dina, it's very difficult for me to answer properly if you are going to get short with me. I thought you were still referring to demons because it is in this topic, if you have other questions then you should ask them in my Judaism thread.

 

Well, I did write in my first response In this thread that we believe in reincarnation. You may want to look at that response again. Perhaps it answer your questions better. I usually right my best explanations the first time around lol. Idk why, I just write better the first time.

[Karen]

By your logic isn't it unfair to blame all your mistakes on a demon? Because basically your saying that a really bad person has no control over himself, it's a demon. So then why would anyone get punished ever? It's not their fault....

I am not saying a person won't get punished on earth, he may. But it won't be straight out because we don't believe that G-D makes direct connections with earth. It will be through some other natural way. We believe in a natural order and in free will. Too put a demon in someone is hardly natural and is completely taking away someone's free will. We just don't believe in that.

Also, you have to understand that in Judaism your soul is everything. We believe in a certain reincarnation. We believe that our soul is our essence and that our bodies are just vessels. We believe that G-D is a spiritual being that is above all physicality. So for us, a soul to be cut of is a big deal. If your soul is cut off, the end... Game over forever. You don't get to experience the world to come (thats the name we use for our version of heaven) and you never come back. That's a huge deal! that's hardly nothing. It's not about feeling, You don't need to feel pain to be punished. It's not a physical punishment it's spiritual. We don't focus on physicality or materialism we focus on spirituality.

 

It makes sense, from what I have read it seems that Judaism focuses a lot on personal responsibility and taking things onto one's self. It's an interesting concept, like instead of placing blame or a lot of dependence on God, there is that personal factor as well.

 

Dina, you need to calm down. I understand that both you and Arie's beliefs are pretty firmly grounded, but please be open and respectful to new ideas.

 

It is important to understand what Arie said: the soul is everything. I suppose in the Christian religions, it's pretty up there in terms of importance too, especially because that, and not our physical bodies, is what will be going to the afterlife. It is really interesting to see the differences in between the afterlife, but honestly I have no idea how this turned into a discussion over heaven and hell and all of that lol.

 

Lets bring it back to topic, shall we?

[Lady Deadpool]

Please calm down dina, it's very difficult for me to answer properly if you are going to get short

Dina, you need to calm down. I understand that both you and Arie's beliefs are pretty firmly grounded, but please be open and respectful to new ideas.

Ok you both need to stop. You can't just bump in a convo saying "calm down" everytime people are having different opinions. It's embarrassing, you make people feel like they're uncivilised.

 

And pardon me but i have to ask where exactly did you see that i wasn't calm? Because i highlighted a sentence? I only highlighted the sentence because Arie kept mentioning the whole demon thing and i thought she couldn't understand my point. I was perfectly calm during the entire convo, just wanted to make myself more clear because my English skills aren't the best.

 

And Karen two things: 1) I know you have this urge to play it peacemaker, but telling people "you need to calm down", while they are perfectly calm, upsets them more.

And 2) where did you exactly see that i was being closed and disrespectful to new ideas?? Where exactly, point it out because that mere statement is extremely offensive. I am tolerant, i was just asking her! Show me that very sentence where i was disrespectful.

 

I don't know how you can sense a tone that it doesn't exist. From no on i guess i have to use smilies or a little note saying "i am not calm" in the end of my statements.

[i love emma]

Im sorry but Im on karen's side