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The Harry And Ginny Thread


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Of course one of Harry's greatest attributes in handling the emense pressures and expectations of being the chosen one was his humility and the fact that he was not big headed or all about bravado and self promotion. Which to me is remarkable in a way. Here was someone who came from a life where he was ignored, and merley an afterthought, the victim of an abusive upbringing. Then Harry was thrust into a situation where he became the center of attention and instead of basquing in the glow of the limelight, he never fully embraced the celebrity status that was heaped upon him. Right from the get go he had a sense of perspective and the very real feeling that his celebrity status was not earned. Of course the direct reason for his celebrity was also the underpinings of his greatest pain.

 

Ginny saw all this and new all this from an early age. It's interesting to me in that she kind of fell in love with Harry twice. The first time, she fell into an almost kind of puppy love with the celebrity Harry Potter, but she NEEDED to fall out of that puppy love if she was ever going to fall in love with him properly for who he was. The second time she fell in love it was the real deal, and it took Harry some time to catch up.

 

Harry's puppy love came in the form of Cho. A beautiful and popular girl, who was emotionally soft and once he saw that softness (which is not meant to be a slight at Cho, it's just who she was) he realized how shallow those feelings were, as that was not a quality he admired. Harry then fell for another beautiful and popular girl in Ginny, but this girl had more emotional strength, and the shared experience of having had her mind effected by Lord Voldemort. She also exhibited the bravery that Harry had exhibited himself time and again. Harry owed his very life to the brave act of a women (his mother Lily) so it's no surprise that he would so value bravery in his eventual wife.

 

sorry if this just rehashed a lot of stuff I've already said. :doh:

 

There was something I was thinking about in regards to Ginny's displays of bravery tonight that I don't think I'd considered a "brave act" neccessarily before, but in fact it really was. When Ginny tried to flush away Tom Riddle's diary and release herself from the grip of Lord Voldemort's influence, it was a remarkable display of strength from such a young girl, and in retrospect could have really been one of the early hints that this girl was going to be a force in Harry's life going forward.

 

The more I think about the Harry/Ginny relationship as it was represented in the books, the more I love it and embrace it. I guess I can take some solace in the fact that I wasn't the only late-comer to the Harry/Ginny ship. It took Harry a while to see it too. :puh:

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^ Maaan, I miss your posts!

 

Beautifully said. I love the insight about flushing away the diary, I'm not sure I've ever really thought of it like that before, but indeed it was quite a remarkable act of strength and control. It's funny, because Ginny has been criticised in the past (don't get me started, lol) for her weakness in pouring her heart out to the diary. But actually, whether you consider that a weakness or not, the fact that she was able to overcome that and recognise it for what it was is quite remarkable in someone so young. The diary being so close to her, and such a source of comfort as it must have been, it must have taken a great deal of courage and will to allow Ginny to recognise that something which had appeared to be there for her was not in fact a positive thing, and to let go of that comfort in order to do what was right. In fact, perhaps in a way flushing the diary was symbolic of Ginny first attempting to let go of her own naivety, by recognising what was real. Perhaps through this she also lost a large part of her initial crush on hero-Harry, and through her ordeal with the diary and Harry's involvement in its final destruction enabled Ginny not only to grow up considerably herself, but also to appreciate Harry for who he really was, rather than his celebrity status.

It's ironic really, that through trying to destroy Harry, Voldemort inadvertently managed to bring him closer to those he loved, which ultimately helped bring about his own destruction.

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^ Maaan, I miss your posts!

 

Beautifully said. I love the insight about flushing away the diary, I'm not sure I've ever really thought of it like that before, but indeed it was quite a remarkable act of strength and control. It's funny, because Ginny has been criticised in the past (don't get me started, lol) for her weakness in pouring her heart out to the diary. But actually, whether you consider that a weakness or not, the fact that she was able to overcome that and recognise it for what it was is quite remarkable in someone so young. The diary being so close to her, and such a source of comfort as it must have been, it must have taken a great deal of courage and will to allow Ginny to recognise that something which had appeared to be there for her was not in fact a positive thing, and to let go of that comfort in order to do what was right. In fact, perhaps in a way flushing the diary was symbolic of Ginny first attempting to let go of her own naivety, by recognising what was real. Perhaps through this she also lost a large part of her initial crush on hero-Harry, and through her ordeal with the diary and Harry's involvement in its final destruction enabled Ginny not only to grow up considerably herself, but also to appreciate Harry for who he really was, rather than his celebrity status.

It's ironic really, that through trying to destroy Harry, Voldemort inadvertently managed to bring him closer to those he loved, which ultimately helped bring about his own destruction.

 

Katharine, you truly said some of the things I was thinking in my last post but couldn't put into words. I miss the responses I get from you and vida on my shipping posts, the insights you two give are truly amazing to me. The idea that Ginny was flushing away her naivete with the diary is a simply brilliant observation and very apropo I believe. When you mentioned that this may have been the moment where she lost some of that intial crush on Harry, that is beautifully stated and exactly what I had wanted to, but failed to say in my previous post. It's funny too, because here Ginny COULD have viewed Harry as a hero and become even more infatuated with him, but her experience gave her a perspective and perhaps the very real sense that heroic acts don't always have a perfect shine, but often come out of loss and always out of struggle. Ginny lost her innocence in a way when her thoughts were violated by Tom Riddle. She gained something too though. Ginny gained the knowledge of what heroism is and what it takes. This was a pivitol moment for her to see that Harry was not just hype, but substance. We've all likely been guilty of falling in love with out perceptions of someone or something. The lucky among us, get to fall in love with someone of real substance, and whether or not they fall in love with us, we are better people from that. Those relationships are the ones in which we grow. Ginny and Harry's relationship needed to have that moment, as difficult as it was, to ever suceed.

 

Katharine, you have on a few occasions now brought up an illusion to old arguments concerning Ginny, which was something I never experieced, having come late to the Harry Potter fandom. I've heard lots of talk about the grief that Ron sometimes took from Harry/Hermione fans, but I never knew that Ginny ever faced the same character defamation from portions of the HP fandom.

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Gah, I miss these discussions. Where is Vida? *searches through a crowd of happy shippers* I can't see her. :sob:

 

Yes, I agree completely! (When do I not? lol) The destruction of the diary was very much a turning point for Ginny, through which she lost some of her youthful perceptions and learned some of the harsher realities of life. I think Ginny grew up here just as much, if not moreso, as Ron grew up when he stabbed the locket. Albeit they had different issues to overcome, but both were forced to do so through a bad experience, one made worse by a horcrux which attacked used their emotional vulnerability to its advantage, and both of them had to find the strength within themselves to recognise this and do something about it. I love Weasleys. :blush: And you're right, that event really formed not only the first real connection between Ginny and Harry in circumstance and as people, it also gave Ginny the opportunity to understand Harry as a person, from which she could fall in love with him properly, forgetting her initial crush.

 

Sadly, yes, Ginny was in the past degraded as much, if not more than Ron in the 'Shipping Wars'. Whilst the treatment of Ron may be more prominent due to the apparently greater numbers of staunch R/Hr shippers than H/G shippers (and thus the main 'battle', if you will, tending to be between H/Hr and R/Hr, at least in my experience), he did usually at least still regain a certain level of acknowledgement (though undeservedly low) from certain parties due to being Harry's best friend and a member of the trio. Ginny, however, could be, and very much was, slated as much as was desired. I will add that in both cases this was not by all members of opposing ships, and 'our side' weren't blameless either, but some among them could be particularly 'militant'.

 

As much as I miss the activity and debate of the old days, one positive thing to come from the series ending has been the opportunity given for so many people to reread and rediscover the characters, enabling Ron, Ginny and more to gain more of the appreciation and love they deserve.

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Gah, I miss these discussions. Where is Vida? *searches through a crowd of happy shippers* I can't see her. :sob:

 

Sadly, yes, Ginny was in the past degraded as much, if not more than Ron in the 'Shipping Wars'. Whilst the treatment of Ron may be more prominent due to the apparently greater numbers of staunch R/Hr shippers than H/G shippers (and thus the main 'battle', if you will, tending to be between H/Hr and R/Hr, at least in my experience), he did usually at least still regain a certain level of acknowledgement (though undeservedly low) from certain parties due to being Harry's best friend and a member of the trio. Ginny, however, could be, and very much was, slated as much as was desired. I will add that in both cases this was not by all members of opposing ships, and 'our side' weren't blameless either, but some among them could be particularly 'militant'.

 

As much as I miss the activity and debate of the old days, one positive thing to come from the series ending has been the opportunity given for so many people to reread and rediscover the characters, enabling Ron, Ginny and more to gain more of the appreciation and love they deserve.

 

Vida is in our hearts Katharine! Now where is a dang deluminator when we need one? :tongue0020:

 

 

Katharine, this slides a bit off topic perhaps but is a question that is really eating at me. Do you think that the ire directed towards Ron and Ginny by some in the past was a product of the movies once they were released? From my line of thinking the relationships between ALL the key characters was represented differently in the movies from how it was represented in the books. Ron and Harry didn't share the same bond in the movies. Harry and Hermione shared a stronger bond in the movies. Ginny and Harry were the closest to sharing the same bond, but some key Ginny/Harry "moments" were also cut, a la Harry's thinking of (a memory scene perhaps could have been included) Ginny last before he set off to face Valdemort in the forrest.

 

Crumb, I seriously have more questions about this, but have to leave for work right now. >.< ugh

 

Great point btw about how time and perspective effect all of our opinions of the relationships, as we re-read the books and re-watch the films.

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I don't think it was a product of the movies alone, in general, but I don't think the movies were entirely blameless. Perhaps some people preferred the dynamics they saw in the movies and tried to apply it to canon. But tbh I think a lot of the hatred towards Ron and Ginny, although horrifically mischaracterised in places in the movies, was mainly due to certain shippers focussing on the characters' flaws and blowing them out of proportion into something which defined them (whilst completely ignoring the flaws of their favoured characters,I may add)in order to fuel their own arguments. I think for those fans who watched the movies first, the movies must have naturally swayed their perceptions of characters and relationships, and as such it is understandable that some people saw the movie-canon as actual canon. But there were also shippers who had read the books first and were just as vehement in their hatred, so I guess it's a bit of a mixed bag.

I'm not sure I've reached a conclusion there, but I'm tired lol.

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I don't think it was a product of the movies alone, in general, but I don't think the movies were entirely blameless. Perhaps some people preferred the dynamics they saw in the movies and tried to apply it to canon. But tbh I think a lot of the hatred towards Ron and Ginny, although horrifically mischaracterised in places in the movies, was mainly due to certain shippers focussing on the characters' flaws and blowing them out of proportion into something which defined them (whilst completely ignoring the flaws of their favoured characters,I may add)in order to fuel their own arguments. I think for those fans who watched the movies first, the movies must have naturally swayed their perceptions of characters and relationships, and as such it is understandable that some people saw the movie-canon as actual canon. But there were also shippers who had read the books first and were just as vehement in their hatred, so I guess it's a bit of a mixed bag.

I'm not sure I've reached a conclusion there, but I'm tired lol.

 

I watched the first four movies before I ever read any of the books and I still became a Ron/Hermione shipper and later a Harry/Ginny shipper, so I guess it really IS determined a lot by our own personalities and by the traits that we are predisposed to appreciating in someone else. I will say for the Harry/Hermione proponents that they were automatically in a more defensive stance once the story had been written. I imagine that once it was obvious that things were headed the way of H/G and R/Hr, that's why the shipping wars really quieted down a lot. I won't harp on this issue though. Sorry about beating a tired topic. :doh:

 

When I watched the second Harry/Ginny kiss in the second Deathly Hallows movie two days ago, I realized that I may have been a bit unfairly critical of it much earlier in this thread. Much like HP readers often wondered about the decision to have the Ron and Hermione kiss happen during the middle of a wizarding war, the movie likewize had the second Harry/Ginny kiss take place in the midst of battle. I think in that sense, the kiss was appropriate and not over-done or over indulged in by Harry or Ginny. The place where a "more intimate" kiss scene may have been inserted was early in DH 2 when George walks in on Harry and Ginny during a private moment. One of the disapointments I'll always have with the movies, as much as I DID enjoy them was the fact that the directors dropped the ball in regards to the large communities of viewers who were emotionally invested in the character relationships and expected more passion from the kiss scenes. I do realize too, that there was the element of a child's audience to consider, but the kiss scenes could have been filmed from somewhere other than behind the heads of the characters imo. >.<

 

omg all I did was complain during this post. lol

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Actually, right up until DH came out there was a large amount of adament H/Hr shippers. Even after the final book came out, there were certain individuals who refused to accept the canon ships. That's why there was a lot of hard feeling - for most R/Hr shippers that I know, it was not so much the preference for a non-canon pairing which was the issue, but the astonishing amount of outright denial of the way canon had gone, or was heading. Don't worry about bringing it up - I'm certainly happy to talk as much as you like on the issue. I'm just very careful of upsetting anyone by bringing it up again. However, the majority of the shippers currently active on this forum joined us, I believe, post-DH, so hopefully it won't offend anyone.

 

I agree that the character relationships have been the most disappointing area of the movie adaptations for me. I also agree on your point about the camera angles etc for the kiss scenes. In actual fact, the DH2 kiss between H/G is pretty much the only one I have actually been satisfied with, probably because it was an addition with no book comparison. As you've said, I think it was appropriate given their situation in the midst of battle. It was a nice moment after their previous two kisses I felt were not done justice in the movies. I don't dislike the H/G relationship in the movies, but as with most of the characters/relationships, it is quite different, IMO, from the one in the books.

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Whenever I watch the movies I cringe at all the Harry/Ron moments that were left out and replaced by Harry/Hermione moments. I guess that comment is more appropriate for the Harry/Ron shipping thread though. >.<

 

I think in a weird sort of way, the fact that so many people can ship H/Hr as opposed to the canon relationships speaks to the way Rowling wroter her characters. I say that in a very positive sense. She really did a wonderful job of developing the trios personalities so well that it allowed fans to ship the relationships/character traits they might value most when they looked at the dynamic between Harry and Ginny and Harry and Hermione and Ron and Hermione. Sometimes I feel that the ships we choose may well indicate as much about the reader's values as it does the character's values. If that makes any sense. Finding it hard to find the words to express what I'd like to in the way I wish to in this post. :doh:

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I understand what you mean. It is indeed testament to JKR's writing and the depth of her characters. As passionate as we are about the 'canon' relationships, it is as she said - it could have gone either way. Whilst I don't believe Harry and Hermione would have had as good a romantic dynamic as either R/Hr or H/G, had those characters been written to have found eachother's better qualities attractive, then they could have been believable romantically. I think a lot of it is to do with individual preference, as you said. A lot of H/Hr shippers seem to dislike the amount of bickering in R/Hr's relationship, preferring H/Hr's calmer dynamic. R/Hr fans, by contrast, can see their fiery moments as a positive. A lot of people seem to overlook or like H/G less because their subtlety is probably overshadowed by more obvious, on-the-page relationships, whereas I am drawn to them largely because of that factor. It's quite staggering when you think of the amount of possible different ways different aspects such as character and relationships can be perceived by individual readers. You only have to look at the movies, and compare the movie version of a character to the one in your mind's eye to note the difference - each movie character must essentially be a merge of the collective interpretations of the actor, directors and casting directors. No matter how good an actor is, or how thoroughly they've researched the character, their interpretation will never be exactly the same as every reader's imagination. Some are closer than others, but it's impossible to meet everyone's expectations.

 

I'm not really sure where I'm going with this now so I'll stop before I start an essay haha.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I understand what you mean. It is indeed testament to JKR's writing and the depth of her characters. As passionate as we are about the 'canon' relationships, it is as she said - it could have gone either way. Whilst I don't believe Harry and Hermione would have had as good a romantic dynamic as either R/Hr or H/G, had those characters been written to have found eachother's better qualities attractive, then they could have been believable romantically. I think a lot of it is to do with individual preference, as you said. A lot of H/Hr shippers seem to dislike the amount of bickering in R/Hr's relationship, preferring H/Hr's calmer dynamic. R/Hr fans, by contrast, can see their fiery moments as a positive. A lot of people seem to overlook or like H/G less because their subtlety is probably overshadowed by more obvious, on-the-page relationships, whereas I am drawn to them largely because of that factor. It's quite staggering when you think of the amount of possible different ways different aspects such as character and relationships can be perceived by individual readers. You only have to look at the movies, and compare the movie version of a character to the one in your mind's eye to note the difference - each movie character must essentially be a merge of the collective interpretations of the actor, directors and casting directors. No matter how good an actor is, or how thoroughly they've researched the character, their interpretation will never be exactly the same as every reader's imagination. Some are closer than others, but it's impossible to meet everyone's expectations.

 

I'm not really sure where I'm going with this now so I'll stop before I start an essay haha.

 

 

First off.. thanks for adding a new Harry/Ginny graphic Joanne! :ohyeah: I love the title to your graphic too. Please keep the graphics coming... I really believe they add wonderfully to the shipper threads.

 

Now Katharine.. sorry for taking so long to respond to this (but it was still faster than your fanfic update ;)) and as usually ITA! The films will always vary from the way we read the books, esp. as each and every one of us has a different vision of the book characters (even though I'm beginning to believe you and vida have used Occlemency on me over the years now). I may have mentioned this before, but I'm kind of torn about movies vs. books and the order in which I experience them. I would qualify myself as a fairly avid reader over the years (many would consider me an avid reader, which makes me below average in my own family) and as such, it's difficult for me to hold off reading a good book when one of my siblings tell me about it. That said, I regrettably resisted reading the Harry Potter books for a loooonnngg time even though my sister and twin brother had championed them to me. Truth be told, I had a narrow and prejudiced view of books that I deemed to be aimed at a teen audience (Since the HP series I've read a number of quality stories aimed at a teen audience). Therefore, I actually saw the first 4 movies before I had read any of the books as it was easier for me to invest my time in a 2 hour movie. In having approached the series in that manner, I have always had a greater affection for the first 4 movies in the series. When I read the books AFTER having seen those movies, while I noticed a number of the differences, on the whole I felt like I was getting EXTRA information. I loved the books, but it didn't really detract any from the movies for me. I can still watch the first four movies and I tend to enjoy them more than any of the subsequent movies save for the final one perhaps. Once I read the series, movies 5,6, and part one of 7 were quite disapointing to me. I will never know the answer to this, but I sometimes wonder if I'd have enjoyed the second half of the series from a filmography perspective, better, had I waited until all the movies were released before I read the series. :mellow:

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Indeed Joanne thank you for the lovely graphic! I love that image. :)

 

 

Jon, I agree (what a surprise!). I, for example, watched the LOTR movies before I read the books. However as much as I appreciated the differences between book and movie, reading the 'extra information' in the canon has only enhanced, not detracted from, my love from the movies. As such, I can understand why movie-first HP viewers can have a greater affinity to the movie portrayal of characters/relationships/etc regardless of their appreciation of the canon. I've often wondered too how I may have viewed the HP films had I not read the books first. I'm sure I would have liked the story, but I often wonder whether my appreciation of the HP films is limited because of my opinion of them as adaptations. There are aspects of the movies that I highly commend, and as a whole I adore them... but largely I adore them BECAUSE they are HP. They are part of that world, and have been part of my life. Regardless of whether or not I believe them to live up to their title. I am glad I read the books first, but in some ways I would be interested to see how my view of the movies and the series as a whole would have altered had I watched the films first. I wonder how that may have affected my perceptions of the characters and their relationships and the overall quality of the story. I'd like to think I would still have found and appreciated the canon as much as I do now, but I guess we'll never know.

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Indeed Joanne thank you for the lovely graphic! I love that image. :)

 

 

Jon, I agree (what a surprise!). I, for example, watched the LOTR movies before I read the books. However as much as I appreciated the differences between book and movie, reading the 'extra information' in the canon has only enhanced, not detracted from, my love from the movies. As such, I can understand why movie-first HP viewers can have a greater affinity to the movie portrayal of characters/relationships/etc regardless of their appreciation of the canon. I've often wondered too how I may have viewed the HP films had I not read the books first. I'm sure I would have liked the story, but I often wonder whether my appreciation of the HP films is limited because of my opinion of them as adaptations. There are aspects of the movies that I highly commend, and as a whole I adore them... but largely I adore them BECAUSE they are HP. They are part of that world, and have been part of my life. Regardless of whether or not I believe them to live up to their title. I am glad I read the books first, but in some ways I would be interested to see how my view of the movies and the series as a whole would have altered had I watched the films first. I wonder how that may have affected my perceptions of the characters and their relationships and the overall quality of the story. I'd like to think I would still have found and appreciated the canon as much as I do now, but I guess we'll never know.

 

If you have children some day Katharine (which is not meant to assume that you would chose to) or if you have young children now, would you want for them to see the movies or read the books first? I've often thought that if I become a parent someday I would like to share my love for Harry Potter with my children and I think that the movies could be a good avenue for getting young children interested enough in the series to give the books a chance. Of course hopefully if I have a wife and children someday, as parents, my wife and I will be good enough to read to our child/children and foster a real interest in reading in them.

 

Sorry if that's too personal a question and I don't mean to put you on the spot. Just curious how you might think the Potter series will take hold with future generations. More through the movies or through the books? Is there a "better" way to introduce them to the series?

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If I had children, I would absolutely encourage them to read the Harry Potter series. If they could get as much from it as I have, that would be something truly special. I think I would want them to read the books first, as I too would hope to encourage reading from a young age. I think I would also like them to read first to prove that books can be enjoyed as much as movies and other forms of entertainment, that not everything has to be reliant on media. Obviously reading is hugely beneficial educationally and in helping children exercise their imaginations. However, I would not be adverse to them seeing the films first. Especially if children are disinterested in reading, the movies would be a great way to get them involved.

 

Lovely graphic Joanne, that picture of Ginny is awesome!

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  • 6 months later...

IF, and this is entirely hypothetical obviously, but if Jo had decided to kill off Ron Weasley in The Deathly Hallows, would Harry still have ended up with Ginny?

 

I ask this coming out of a few points. The first being that there would be a huge outcry and expectation from the Harry/Hermione crowd that Harry and Hermione end up together if Ron had died. The second being out of how Ginny might react to Harry, if that would have been altered or effected any, having lost Ron. Would Ginny somehow have held Harry responsible or resent the boy who lived after her brother who was so closely involved with the cause lost his life?

 

I have my answeres, but I will wait for other reactions before I devulge what I think.

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I think no matter what, Harry and Ginny would have ended up together-btw YOU ARE IN TIMEOUT FOREVER...HOW DARE YOU THINK THINK THINK of saying the words KILLED OFF RON WEASLEY IN THE SAME SENTENCE???? ;) That would be like saying the same about our Hermione!!!!! NO NO NO LOL...from the moment Harry and Hermione met (I am talking book and movies here) Hermione was meant to be Harry's sister-Hermione treated Harry like her little brother and sometimes even motherly. As for Ginny-she had a crush on Harry from the start. I think Ginny would have realized that Ron made the decision to go with Harry and IF (THANK YOU JKR FOR NOT DOING THIS TO OUR R/HR) Ron would have been killed off, she would have not blamed Harry. I think Ginny chose her Chosen One early in life, much to the worry of her parents-they loved Harry like their son but I think the dangers of being with Harry concerned them about their lil girl. Anywho just my 2 cents :)

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That's a really interesting question Jon! (I've missed these forums).

 

If such an unthinkable thing had happened, it would certainly have had a massive impact on all the main characters' lives.

 

Concerning Harry and Hermione... it is totally possible that through love and grief for Ron they could have been brought closer together... but all things considered, I don't think they would have got together. Here are my reasons:

- Harry and Hermione's relationship when Ron left in DH. Fair enough, the situation is very different. Harry's feelings towards Ron would be grief, rather than anger or betrayal. But H/Hr's behaviour without Ron in DH is quite telling, I think - they felt his loss profoundly. As great friends as Harry and Hermione are, without Ron there a piece of the trio was missing. Sometimes they passed days without even talking to eachother. Furthermore, Harry doesn't comfort Hermione. In this instance, he feels partially responsible for her sadness. The same would be true if Ron had died - Harry would feel overwhelmingly guilty. Also, throughout the series, Harry has avoided conversations with Hermione about feelings. In such an event, Hermione would be scrutinising Harry more than ever, and he would push her away like he always does. He can be irritated by Hermione's worry, and as much as he cares, he doesn't always like to approach her about things either. He avoids going to her with his own problems, and he doesn't always know how to be of comfort to her (like in DH).

- Guilt. Even if Harry and Hermione did start to feel romantically inclined to one another, out of respect for Ron's memory they would not act on it for quite some time. Hermione, by DH, is completely in love with Ron. That would take her significant time to get over. Harry would also have to deal with the thought that he was betraying Ron by getting with the girl he knew (even if Ron had never acknowledged it to him) that Ron had loved. Especially if Ron had died after The Silver Doe - that would intensify the guilt no end.

- Just because Ron dies doesn't make Harry and Hermione any more suited. Sure, circumstances change. They are brilliant friends who love eachother dearly and perhaps they could grow close enough to start a romantic relationship. However, Harry and Hermione have never shown any sign of attraction towards eachother. In my opinion, certain aspects of their personalities are not ideally romantically suited either. Ultimately, Harry and Hermione not together not because Hermione is in love with Ron, but because Hermione is not in love with Harry.

 

 

Harry and Ginny's relationship would undoubtedly be affected by Ron's death. On Harry's part, he would blame himself for the death of her brother, for the pain he caused her family. Perhaps even the family resemblance would make it hard for him to be close to her. He would probably try to push her away, to extradite himself from the Weasleys to save them all the pain of being around him and vice versa. But I don't think they'd let him. The entire Weasley family knew what they were getting into, they knew the risk involved. A couple may lash out in grief, but I don't think ultimately any of them would blame Harry. They lose Fred in DH and although we don't know the aftermath of the battle, it seems that any friction that was caused healed eventually.

 

Ginny, along with the rest of her family would be consumed with grief and I think Harry would find it difficult to comfort her, due to his own grief and feeling of responsibility. I don't think Ginny would blame him at all. I don't think the situation would alter their love for one another, merely the intensity of their relationship. Perhaps Harry would feel guilty being with Ginny knowing Ron's problems with their relationship in the past. It may feel insulting to his memory. Ultimately though, despite undoubtable pressure, I think Harry and Ginny would pull through. They dealt with Fred's death. Ron's death would have much more impact on Harry, and perhaps strain their relationship more, but similar guilt and grief would have been caused by Fred's death. They got through that. They've got through a lot. Ginny is a strong person, and brings comfort to Harry. I believe the two of them would have pulled through in the end.

 

 

What do you think?

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Kristin and Katharine, you both make great points and ITA!

 

Harry and Hermione are simply not sympatico in the way that Harry and Ginny are. Not only did Harry have difficulty comforting Hermione when Ron was gone, but throughout the series, in book after book, when Hermione and Ron were at odds and Harry had to try and connect with Ron and Hermione indvidually, his interactions with Ron were often relatively seemless, while an awkward and unsettled feeling existed between him and Hermione most of the time. I think that for Hermione too.. Harry was, as you said Kristin, like a brother, and that is why she treated him as her sounding board. Harry was ofc dealing with a small matter known as Voldemort and was never very good at relating to the personal dramas, the highs and the lows, that Ron and Hermione thrived off of. Harry needed someone who exhibited emotional equlibrium. That was always Ginny. By the time of the Deathly Hallows, there had been way too much character development to ever suggest that Harry could be with Hermione and vice versa IMO.

 

Now, having said that, I believe if JKR had snuffed out Ron that Ginny's decision to be with Harry and Harry's decision to be with Ginny would not be QUITE as clear. Katharine, you brought up a great point that I had not even considered (ummm OFF TOPIC.. this is exhibit A for why we need you here more often) in that Harry would likely have felt such an extreme guilt over Ron's death that he might push Ginny and the Weasley's away. That point that you made, could indeed be the biggest obstacle to a Harry/Ginny relationship moving forward. I agree with you that Ginny had fully accepted the potential consequences of standing by Harry, as had her family. In having made that decision, she would not leave Harry's side easily.

 

Another point I considered was that had JKR chosen to do the unmentionable and killed Ron it wouldn't take away the empathetic connection that Harry and Ginny share ALONE, in both having had their minds invaded by Lord Voldemort. Having both shared that unique trama, it created almost like the polar opposite of a HORCRUX, between Harry and Ginny. Rather than their souls fracturing, that experience cemented them as soul mates IMO. When JKR had Ginny remind Harry of that (In Order of the Phoenix I believe it was) I think she was shrewdly having Ginny tell Harry, WE ARE SOULMATES, and don't you forget it (even though I don't suggest that as a concious motive, the concious motive was to tell Harry to stop being such a whiny bitch)! And it struck Harry in such a way that it was the single thing that penetrated the self-pity and anger in him that was pervasive throughout OOTP.

 

I think this moment is what would have eventually brought Harry around to Ginny, inspite of all the guilt he'd have felt over Ron's death, heaped upon Fred's and that of all the other friends who perished.

 

and that's what I think. :yesyes:

 

Oh and OFF TOPIC. Kristin! :o ETERNAL TO?????? :sob:

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YES jon I am sorry-I had a BAD week at work so dont mess with me ;)

 

DW, WOW...all I can say is WOW...everything you said made sense...I can't even comment because literally I can't argue anything to the point or add anything to it. I believe H/G were meant to be from the start but I will be honest only in book version-the movies didnt help that relationship-I think some because Dan and Bonnie just didnt have that chemistry, like R/E have with each other. Which was sad because in the book I really did like H/G together-Jon the point you made about both their minds being invaded brought them as soulmates-WOAH (you are now allowed to come join us again ;))...Hermione and Harry I think (dont kill me here) wouldnt have ever been friends or at least best friends had it not been for Ron. Yes Hermione and Harry were brought up by muggles but with that said what else did they have in common? Another thing is Harry never challenged Hermione the way that Ron does. Hermione/Ron had this I dont know INTENSE PASSION for each other when they would fight-like trying to get each other going because well thats what passionate people do LOL...H/G challenge each other-Ginny is a strong, stubborn Weasley girl (like Molly) who doesnt take Harry's "woe is me" nonsense. She loves Harry for who he is. Hermione in some ways wanted to see Harry change/couldnt take Harry's woe is me attitude. But Ron, she loves without wanting to change who he is. She sees Ron as the man that others couldnt always see. She loves her Weasley King without any question, doubt, I mean unconditionally they love each other. Harry and Hermione always fought but not in the same way though as R/Hr did. When Ron left, like DW said, there was this piece that was missing-Harry couldnt comfort Hermione because he didnt know how to comfort her. He was all awkward like a lil brother would be with his older sister. I mean I think JKR meant for Hermione and Ginny to end up with the other's brother :) Now IF, IF IF IF (it pains me to even write this) Ron would have died, I think Hermione would have gone back to the muggle world-I think she wouldnt be able to stay in a world that killed the love of her life. My other theory is that Hermione would have fallen in love (MANY years later like 15 years! LOL) with a muggle. A third theory, Hermione would have become an auror in memory of her love and would take on Ron's personality of being a bit reckless and impulsive at times. All in all I just dont see Hermione moving on-she may have been the logical one but usually the ones with the brains have a fragile heart. Anyway again my 2 cents...I like this discussion because THANK GOD RON LIVES!!! :) MARRIED TO HIS HERMIONE!!! :) WITH KIDS!!! :)

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Jon, your point about Harry and Hermione being at odds throughout the series was what I'd been meaning to say, but you expressed it so much better. Obviously Hermione is often 'at odds' with Ron too, but I think the telling thing is not the amount of fights she has with both boys, but they way in which those fights affect the characters/relationships involved. Hermione countering Harry annoys him and he avoids her. Hermione countering Ron provokes Ron and he in turn counters her. That is, IMO, a much more healthy way to deal with disagreements and Ron and Hermione are able and unafraid to rise to eachothers challenges in this. Like Kristen said, they have a very passionate relationship.

 

Kristen, I also find interesting your suggestion that Hermione may want to change some aspects of Harry's attitude or personality that annoy her. I'd never thought about that before, but I think you could be right. Hermione and Ron disagree over certain issues, but they never seem annoyed by one of the other's personality traits, as Harry and Hermione do.

 

Jon, I LOVE the imagery of H/G's diary connection being a kind of anti-horcrux. Oh, how Tom Riddle would love to know the part he played in Harry finding the love of his life!

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