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what is all of this about, and what is the root cause, i dont really get it at all!!

 

all i know is that Israel have blockaded Gaza, (because of Hamas) and wont even let aid ships through, for example, the Turkish Aid Flotilla on the way to Gaza, not so long ago..

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Hahaha pretty much. But, debate on these issues is important! Don't feel as if you did anything bad! I just wish more people had an opinion or cared.

I'm sure a lot of people have an opinion and care, but I don't like to debate here anymore, too many silly arguments and you always have to justify your self, and often you fight alone against many.

 

also what i dont get is that the jewish religion and the muslim religion is almost alike, we did get some of our beliefs from the jews, and i dont understand why every one just cant be at peace with eachother. i mean i would understand if it was like a muslim state sharing with atheists and i can see the problems there, but jews and muslims have similar beliefs i wish everyone would get along.

To be honest, most if not all religions are alike. They have a lot in common and share beliefs. Even with the so called pagan religions of the ancient world.

 

One thing that constantly troubles me is the double standard set by the israeli government - they want the palestinians to be nice and law-abiding citizens (of what, actually?) while they themselves let their own settlers violate the law and all previous agreements all the time and even send army and police to protect them....plus money from the state if I heard correctly. What kind of message is that to the palestinians?

Can they really expect the palestinians (in their hearts) to renounce on their vow to destroy israel if a large part of israelis will not give up on their dream of a pure jewish state in the borders as they were a very long time ago (or at least as they believe the borders were) ?

 

I think if the USA wouldn't partly fund an israeli army whose striking power is all out of proportion in relation to Israels size and normal monetary means, they would have been forced to negotiate a lot more and earlier and more honestly than they have done so far. Always having big brother to back you up and shield you from the consequences of your behaviour does not tend to make you a well-rounded and even-tempered person I guess.

^I completely agree with that.

 

I also support the two state solution. And I don't support the brutality, attacks, war etc on both sides. It is possible to get what you want peacefully. If you attack, there will be a counterattack (no matter who started).

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I'm sure a lot of people have an opinion and care, but I don't like to debate here anymore, too many silly arguments and you always have to justify your self, and often you fight alone against many.

 

 

To be honest, most if not all religions are alike. They have a lot in common and share beliefs. Even with the so called pagan religions of the ancient world.

 

^I completely agree with that.

 

I also support the two state solution. And I don't support the brutality, attacks, war etc on both sides. It is possible to get what you want peacefully. If you attack, there will be a counterattack (no matter who started).

 

yes, at one point all the religions were the same werent they?

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I agree with everything said about religions being so similar. I don't understand why we can't get along!!! Some of my best friends are in fact Arab!!!! But, my opinion is always going to remain the same on this issue. Regardless of anything else, palistinians are being ruled by terrorist organizations and I will never support terrorism. Until these organizations are out of the picture, no deal.

 

what is all of this about, and what is the root cause, i dont really get it at all!!

 

all i know is that Israel have blockaded Gaza, (because of Hamas) and wont even let aid ships through, for example, the Turkish Aid Flotilla on the way to Gaza, not so long ago

 

You probably should actually figure out what a topic is about before you post. This is an issue that is important to a lot of people.

 

Also. The reason for the block into gaza was for a few different reasons. First off, because Gaza doesn't need the aid. People think that gaza is just this desolate waste land. It's not!!! They just built a HUGE mall with millions of stores. They don't need aid and that's why it was stopped. It wasn't just Israels decision either, many countries supported the block. Also, the ships didn't even carry aid... They were carrying weapons into gaza. Another reason it was stopped. And lastly, gaza is still sending missiles into Israel ever single day!!! Killing and destroying families. Yet, Israel is supposed to send aid??? They don't need it! But, again, it wasn't just Israels idea. In fact, the US called for the block before Israel.

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There have been some good posts in this debate. I think most people agree, that there should be a Palestinian State, also the State of Israel must be respected. I think we are in the same position as the people at the UN, we know what is needed, but we don't know how to implement it, without upsetting one side or the other. The two sides should get together and work things out, the first thing they should agree on, is no more violence.

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Of course Palestine should have the right to be a country. What would the americans say if someone decided to put a country in the middle of USA, and that country later took over more and more? I mean, no one would just agree with that. If you look at maps of Israel since the foundation in the 40's, no one can deny they have take a lot of the Palestine land.

 

But on the other hand I heard a Palestine guy, maybe from Fatah or some other political organisation, interviewed at the news and he said that a membership in the UN could be negative for Palestine, because maybe it just was a way for the leader to put the conflict problem on UN or something like that. Stay on his position maybe. This guy was not all pro this anyhow, I guess there are two side of the same coin.

But if not a member of the UN, I still think Palestine should have the right to be a own country.

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And guess what?.....

 

Yes !!! The Israelis are building AGAIN !!!

 

Netanyahu's fave line must be FTW......

 

building again??? as in tearing down palestinian homes and building israeli settlements?

Edited by Rena
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Don't be too hard on Israel, they must feel isolated, being surrounded by Arab countries. I know its not right to take other peoples land, but perhaps, the Government have no other way of pleasing their people. Don't come down on me for that comment, because I don't agree with their policies.

 

I read an interesting article in a newspaper the other day, which suggested that Israel might have to change radically in the future, it was only theory. It said that Israel would either become a fortress, using military force as a deterrent. Or it would have a shared state, with the Palestinians.

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Oh yeah because Palestinians have never ever torn down Israeli homes to build theres.... :rolleyes:

 

You guys need to read more news. Both sides are guilty, and both sides have good arguments!

 

I am so sick of everyone just being against Israel. Why do we not deserve rights as well? Everyone is just saying that Israel hand everything over and the end. (I am not just talking about people on this site). So, no Israelis deserve to have any rights? How is that fair?

 

Why can't we have a two state solution? Why can't we have peace! I am talking as partly Israeli and a Jew. We need peace, not to throw more people out of their homes.

 

It completely floors me that most people who comment on here just think Israel is this evil, horrible country and that all Arab states are wonderful. Both have made mistakes, both are equally guilty. I am shocked that most people on here think that there should just only be a Palestine because the Palestinians don't have rights. While I agree that the Palestinians deserve to have their rights, why dont the Isralis to have theirs as well?

 

When this was first introduced to the UN the US said that there needs to be a 2 state solution. The Palestinians turned that down, they said all or nothing. So why is Israel the only "bad" one in this? How is it okay to take all the rights away from one people and give them to another? Why can't we both have rights and live together?

 

(I am sorry if my argument seems too heated or offends any body. I am just very frustrated that most people just want all or nothing. I want to meet in the middle. And, I promise this was not meant as an attack or anything!)

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Arie: I don't say there should only be a Palestian state and I understand both sides has done wrong, but you can't say just because Palestine do wrong too doesn't mean Israel are acting great. It's terrible what Israel are doing when they take over Palestine land, and they have done it for 60 years. That's all I'm saying. And on the other side Palestine do terrible things when they're bombing Israel and whatever they do.

What I don't understand is why there can't be 2 states. Why is Israel a country but not Palestine? I think both should have rights, no one should need to fight for it.

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The trouble with this conflict is that both sides think they are right. They are so entrenched in their views, neither of them will give an inch. Proposals have been put to them in the past, and all have been rejected. I don't know what the main stumbling blocks are, probably the division of land, and access to Religious sites. Surely its time to put the past behind them and work together for a better future, for both sides. I know it may be impossible to please everyone, but a life of peace is better than what is happening now.

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Arie: I don't say there should only be a Palestian state and I understand both sides has done wrong, but you can't say just because Palestine do wrong too doesn't mean Israel are acting great. It's terrible what Israel are doing when they take over Palestine land, and they have done it for 60 years. That's all I'm saying. And on the other side Palestine do terrible things when they're bombing Israel and whatever they do.

What I don't understand is why there can't be 2 states. Why is Israel a country but not Palestine? I think both should have rights, no one should need to fight for it.

 

If you read my post you will see that I clearly stated that both sides are equally guilty. That was the whole point of my post.

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Arie no one disputes that both sides have made grave errors in the past - but right now (or for some years), the only ones

who are taking land that is someone else's to build their homes on are the Israelis.

Or are there Palestinians somewhere coming onto pre-1967-borders israeli land, evicting them and building palestinian settlements?

If you want to have true negotiations, at some point you simply have to stop building. And you have to take the settlers out of there.

 

Arie would you want to enter into talks about buying a house that gets smaller and smaller and even looses its water&electricity while you're talking.....but you're still expected to pay the same price ? And you can't even decide yourself when you're going to move in ?

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I have shocking news for you then. Palestinians may not be building settlements but its not like they haven't kicked people out of their homes. They are not innocent in this matter either. And here is the other thing. The israelis are living in terror because any day now all of them or the mojority of them can be forced out of their homes because of this issue we are discussing. So if they start building its because its all they have left. Its the only thing they can do to say israel is strong. But here is my main issue with your argument. You criticize the building yet you have no idea what that means. They don't kick people out of their homes. They set up settlements where no one else lives. I have been there I know. I have seen it. Its the middle of nowhere where they build. So no palestinians are being kicked out of their homes. Atleast not it mass quantities. I am not saying the bulding is okay. But its sort of the last thing they can do just to say hey we are still here and we want to survive. Also you critisize israelis for supossedly kicking out palestinians but what do you think is going to happen if a palestinian state were created. Tons of israelis will be forced out of their homes. It will be like gaza all over again. And is that fair? Its okay for israelis to get kicked out of their homes?

 

My point is just that there are so many different factors that need to be considered. Because it can't just be that one gains and the other looses. It can't.

 

And chris how would I feel? I will let you know if I am forced to give up my home in israel once again. We had a home in gaza but we all know how that went. So yes. I know exactly how it feels. Do you?

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I'm not trying to start a heated arguement, but i've lived in Palestine and the settlements are not in the middle of no where. The Israeli's have one of the largest and strongest armies in the world, so the Palestinans are also living in fear. I think that in this topic since we both think we are right its not going to solve anything and i respect your views. And i also agree that both sides are also violent. I hate that we've grown up to this and it will be aroud forever, i have a feeling that the jews and arabs will always dislike eachother and thats something i want to break.

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Just a quick point to bear in mind for the people who are accusing the Palestinians of being ruled by terrorists, if you were living in a situation where you're entire country has effectively been dismantled and occupied by a force that hasn't lived natively in the area since the Roman empire ejected them, and it has been your historical homeland throughout the Ottoman Empire, to have all that taken away within more or less one lifespan, could you honestly say you would do anything different?

 

And also consider the situation in Ireland, which actually has quite a few similarities, revolving around statehood intrinsically tied to religion (Loyalists and republicans), and you will find that in order to make any progress towards a peaceful, stable future, it is necessary to all sides to be willing to compromise, and to tackle the issue of terrorism, as well as aggressive militarism from the occupational force with equal vigour, and accept that there will always be a hard-core on both sides that will not be satisfied with any kind of compromise, but the majority of people simply wish to be able to live a normal life, in peace and safety.

 

The issue of how Israel has acted as a state towards its neighbours, and existing inhabitants since its (artificial) inception however would get a much much more scathing post from me.

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I'm sorry to interrupt, i support both sides, but i just wanted to ask why does everyone keep saying about Palestinians being there before Roman Empire, or since Ottoman empire and all? Is that a valid point? Because if so then half of the world should be Greek now? I mean all the Balcans including Turkey should belong to Greece if you remember the Byzantine Empire, or Alexander the Great had occupied parts of India, maybe these parts belong to the Greeks too? Let's be serious.

 

Since 1922 Greece owned the coast of Asia minor, and they were kicked out by the Ottomans and an incredible man slaughtering a genocide happened and now all those places that belonged to us through ancient times until then, now belong to the Turks and i haven't seen anyone protesting and killing each other saying this land rightfully belong to us.

Edited by Provehito In Altum
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I'm sorry to interrupt, i support both sides, but i just wanted to ask why does everyone keep saying about Palestinians being there before Roman Empire, or since Ottoman empire and all? Is that a valid point? Because if so then half of the world should be Greek now? I mean all the Balcans including Turkey should belong to Greece if you remember the Byzantine Empire, or Alexander the Great had occupied parts of India, maybe these parts belong to the Greeks too? Let's be serious.

 

Let me clarify what I meant, I was simply pointing out that under *any* occupation of land, there will always be resistance, especially when the occupiers effectively subjugate the Indigenous (or at least in recent history before the occupation took place) peoples, and especially as much of the conflict and proprietorial occupation took place within what could legitimately termed as 'living memory', it is natural that there is a large amount of anger in the population, and as they lack powerful international allies on the same scale as the Zionist movement and the state of Israel, to my mind at least, it seems natural that you will vote for a belligerent movement that are concerned with the rights of your own people, even if they are considered by many to be 'terrorists', for an example, look back to Ireland again (I know, I like the analogy) and see the huge amount of support that the paramilitary groups had amongst many Irish people, as well as overseas supporters (Specifically many Irish-Americans)

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Just a quick point to bear in mind for the people who are accusing the Palestinians of being ruled by terrorists, if you were living in a situation where you're entire country has effectively been dismantled and occupied by a force that hasn't lived natively in the area since the Roman empire ejected them, and it has been your historical homeland throughout the Ottoman Empire, to have all that taken away within more or less one lifespan, could you honestly say you would do anything different?

 

And also consider the situation in Ireland, which actually has quite a few similarities, revolving around statehood intrinsically tied to religion (Loyalists and republicans), and you will find that in order to make any progress towards a peaceful, stable future, it is necessary to all sides to be willing to compromise, and to tackle the issue of terrorism, as well as aggressive militarism from the occupational force with equal vigour, and accept that there will always be a hard-core on both sides that will not be satisfied with any kind of compromise, but the majority of people simply wish to be able to live a normal life, in peace and safety.

 

The issue of how Israel has acted as a state towards its neighbours, and existing inhabitants since its (artificial) inception however would get a much much more scathing post from me.

You are talking like that Jews came from diffrent countries and just occupied this country from the Arabs... I am reminding you that Jews came to israel at first because of the antisemitism in Europe, and they have settled in empty lands or bought lands from the arabs, we didn't fought for Arab lands, we got our lands in a legit way. After a while when the Jews developed those lands and built settlements, and defended those lands from arab gangs, the Un said that there should be two states and he gave the UN Partition Plan For Palestine, the Jews accepted it, the Arabs didnt, something like 5 Arab armies attacked Israel, Israel won and got some territories that according to the UN Partiation Plan belonged to the Arabs. If they hadn't attacked us in 1947, they would had probably have a state in these days. And what do you have to say about how that Israel act as a state towards its neightbours and the Arabs that have an Israeli citizenship? There are Arab towns and villages inside Israel that Arabs live there pretty good, there are Arabs in the Israeli Parlament and i can tell you more if you want. And about your question, what I would have done if I were in the same situation as the Palestinians, I am not sure, but I don't think that I would support suicide bombers, or people who are launching rockets from my house.

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I understand your point azlan and it is valid. But the bottom line is, they are terrorists!! I understand arabs living in that part of the world supporting those groups. It makes sense. Many think these terrorist groups are the only ones who can make the world better for them. But what about the rest of the world? The people who sit in their nice homes away from terrorism? At this point in time by supporting this issue you are supporting terrorism. That's not something people should be comfortable with. Or are we to forget about 911 or the london underground attack. Its not just israel that these terrorists are targeting. So how can any rational thinking person support this issue fully knowing that terrorist orgnizations are at the heart of it?

But yes, I do agree that for the people who live in those areas their support makes sense.

 

Also dina your post was very interesting!! Thankss for sharing that information!

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