Palestine 194

[Rena]

And israeli's arent terrorist? so what it is called when they kill innocent palestinians? do you expect the palestinians to sit there and while their country being destroyed? And dont compare the hamas to al-qaida, al-qaida is destroying for power where hamas is defending their country.

Edited October 6, 2011 by Rena

[Arie]

And israeli's arent terrorist? so what it is called when they kill innocent palestinians? do you expect the palestinians to sit there and while their country being destroyed? And dont compare the hamas to al-qaida, al-qaida is destroying for power where hamas is defending their country.

 

Yes I am saying exactly that. Because it is the truth, there are no Israeli terrorist organizations. No matter how you feel about Israel, that is a fact. Yes, to you, it might seem that some of Israel's action is terrorism. But, there are no terrorist organizations, that is the bottom line. And, obviously, I don't really know how Israeli's could even remotely be considered terrorists, feel free to show me some examples.

 

Two things, Palestinians are not all innocent. And, Israel takes EXTREME care to make sure no one innocent is ever killed. However, the Palestinians are the ones using children as body shields and blowing themselves up.

 

I don't exactly know what you are referring too bu "while their country is destroyed"? Which country, Israel? And, if so, um how exactly is it being destroyed?

 

Hamas is still a terrorist organization! So yeah I am going to compare them. Besides the fact that half the people being ruled by Hamas HATE Hamas. I have Arab friends, all their friends and family despise what Hamas has done to their country. I completely disagree. And farther, what Hamas does can hardly be called "defense". Something is only considered defensive when someone else attacks first. Rarely, does Israel attack first. Its one of the Army's main rules.

 

Hamas are the ones sending rocket after rocket over the border even though we are supposed to be in a cease fire. My BF is currently living 5k from Gaza. I have been on skype and the phone when the sirens have gone off. His life is in jeopardy everyday from Hamas. That is terrorism. He is innocently living his life in Israel. But, everyday something happens. Everyday I live in fear because of Hamas and other terrorist organizations. I will never support something that allows for terrorism. I will never support something that includes terrorist organizations. That's just me, but I guess other people are okay with terrorism.

 

 

Again, I am not saying Israel is perfect. Even though most of the posters on here keep twisting my words around to make it seem like I do. I keep making the same point over and over again.

 

Terrorists are terrorists... the end!! They kill and destroy. Hamas is no different then any other terrorist organization.

 

Oh, and one more thing. When the UN suggest a two state solution. Hamas was one of the groups to completely shoot that idea down. They want it all. So exactly how is that peaciful or fair?

[The Midnight Q]

Did you know that one of the first recognized terrorist groups in the 20th Century was the Irgun, comprised of Jewish immigrants in Palestine back in the '30s.

 

I don't have a very strong opinion on this topic, considering I'm a little under-informed as of yet. My opinion on the conflict in the Holy Land is this. Both sides was sovereignty over the same land, its a legitimate war. Tactics aside, it's still a war. My only quib about the Israeli side is the Zionist view. It was probably the "Promised Land" in a book but I get rather annoyed at pro-Zionists who argue that the Holy Land belongs to Israel because God promised them that land. Ancestors of the ethnic Palestinians were there well before Moses ever arrived until he and Joshua's army slaughtered, everyone. In some battles in the Israelites' conquest of Canaan, nobody was spared. But I guess it was God's will. After the Romans, I guess the Israelites fled until centuries later when the British created a separate state in the region for Jewish refugees.

Edited October 6, 2011 by sirbenedictvs

[The Midnight Q]

In my honest opinion, there will never be peace in the Middle East. That land is sacred to much of the world's population and for millenia the land is tarnished with the blood of thousands and many more to come.

 

(sorry to double post, I guess my time limit of editing my previous post expired)

Edited October 6, 2011 by sirbenedictvs

[Arie]

Ill give you that on the irgun. They were a little intense however they only really did one terrorist attack so to compare them to the likes of hamas is not completely accurate. Also, irgun no longer exists.

 

Your point is an interesting one of course. You have to remember that israel is a religious state no matter which religion you use. That book is the bible and many of us on this board follow it. Please respect that. It is also not a good argument to say that ethnic palastinians were there before. There were people living there but they aren't really connected at all to the palastininans today. Also in your story you missed a crutial point. Gd told joshua to send them a letter. The letter told them to make a choice. Adopt moral values... The noahite laws or leave. These were a completely imoral bunch. Its a completely different ball game. They weren't even arab! To connect the too isn't valid. They were completely different people. That like saying every american is connected to native americans. That's wrong. Many many palestininans came from other countries around.

[azlan]

Arie, that last post also raises an interesting point related to the issue, especially around the ideal of Zionism, in that, can there truly still be a 'Jewish' race if they have been a widely distributed and to an extent nomadic people for many years? Would it be more accurate to call a person of Jewish descent that was born in America say, an american or a Jew? and by extension, is the 'Law of Return' in fact a discriminatory policy designed to force non-Jewish people in the country to feel intimidated and subjugated, or is it still a method to allow those of Jewish descent to escape persecution?

 

You say that the Palestinians are not the indigenous peoples any more, but surely then, you cannot claim at the same time that the Israelis have an intrinsic right to the land either as the majority of the current population of Israel are either first generation, or descendants of western settlers

 

And by extension, questions need to be asked as to if the founding principles of post-war Zionism still hold any weight as state level anti-Semitism in the western world is no longer a major issue.

 

 

(Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to offend anyone with what I am saying in these posts, I'm basically trying to throw the points that I remember as being interesting dilemmas from when I studied the Arab-Israeli conflict during my A-levels out for discussion)

[Arie]

Arie, that last post also raises an interesting point related to the issue, especially around the ideal of Zionism, in that, can there truly still be a 'Jewish' race if they have been a widely distributed and to an extent nomadic people for many years? Would it be more accurate to call a person of Jewish descent that was born in America say, an american or a Jew? and by extension, is the 'Law of Return' in fact a discriminatory policy designed to force non-Jewish people in the country to feel intimidated and subjugated, or is it still a method to allow those of Jewish descent to escape persecution?

 

You say that the Palestinians are not the indigenous peoples any more, but surely then, you cannot claim at the same time that the Israelis have an intrinsic right to the land either as the majority of the current population of Israel are either first generation, or descendants of western settlers

 

And by extension, questions need to be asked as to if the founding principles of post-war Zionism still hold any weight as state level anti-Semitism in the western world is no longer a major issue.

 

 

(Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to offend anyone with what I am saying in these posts, I'm basically trying to throw the points that I remember as being interesting dilemmas from when I studied the Arab-Israeli conflict during my A-levels out for discussion)

 

I agree and disagree with some of your points. First, Judaism is not a race it is a religion. So you have to take that out of the picture. We are not racially Jewish, my race is white. Israel is a religious state. In my opinion it is a religious state for many many different people. Yes, there are many people who now live in Israel who did not originate there. Which is the same with many f the Palestinians. So to say that one or the other was there first is sort obsolete. None of us were truly there first. Because both the Jews and the Arabs are very different from our ancestors who lived in Israel in the time of the bible. The law Return is not meant to be discriminatory at all. You have to think of e context. This law came into place not long after the holocaust. Jews all over the world were terrified and at the time it was important for them to know there was somewhere they could always turn too. When you take it out of that context, the law of return sucks. I have issues with it. I love the idea that allows are welcomed back. But, i don't understand why people who are not Jewish can't become citizens. I have Christian friends living in Israel who can't even get citizenship. The law definitely needs to be updated, there have been many talks about it. But, remember the context and it will make more sense.

 

Correct I don't believe that most of the Palestinians are indigenous. I am not sure of the statistics of Jews living in Israel. However, this is still a huge amount of Israelis, real Israeli who can trace their families back centuries. It's actually pretty cool!! To me it just seems like there are so many more Palestinians now that all this is being talked about. Israel is completely surrounded by Arab countries so it makes sense to me that many have moved from neighboring countries. Again, I am not sure of any exact statistics, but I plan to look them up when I get home. I only know what I know. And, I know that while their are a lot of first generation Jews ect, there are tons and tons of natives too. Farther, the places that are heavily accepted by native Israelis are the cities that are most targeted by terrorists. Which adds another interesting layer.

 

Anti-semitism is still everywhere. It's ridiculous actually. Its gotten really bad in France and England. Even in America i still get yelled at sometimes or treated badly. This isn tsomething that is ever going to go away. People just love to hate!

 

I don't take offense to any posts unless they are disrespectful. I like to hear both sides of the argument. I think it's important that I share mine on here since I'm pretty much the only Jew on this entire forum. I only get upset when people attack me or are disrespectful. I do my research and I make sure what I write is as accurate as possible. But, now and then you get a poster who just freaks out and rights all kinds of random things. It's important to write in a calm manner, respectfully, and academically. That's the only way. Debate like this can work! So thank for being respectful!!! I definitely share some of your views!

[azlan]

First, Judaism is not a race it is a religion. So you have to take that out of the picture. We are not racially Jewish, my race is white. Israel is a religious state. In my opinion it is a religious state for many many different people.

 

This on its own to me is a fairly interesting point, as Judaism is defined differently by different groups of people, and although the actual definition of 'Jewish' used by the state of Israel is largely irrelevant to any peace process, it is still an interesting topic in its own right.

 

The law Return is not meant to be discriminatory at all. You have to think of e context. This law came into place not long after the holocaust. Jews all over the world were terrified and at the time it was important for them to know there was somewhere they could always turn too. When you take it out of that context, the law of return sucks. I have issues with it. I love the idea that allows are welcomed back. But, i don't understand why people who are not Jewish can't become citizens. I have Christian friends living in Israel who can't even get citizenship. The law definitely needs to be updated, there have been many talks about it. But, remember the context and it will make more sense.

 

I wasn't so much talking about the intention of the law when it was written, more its current application, especially against the backdrop of extreme difficulty gaining citizenship for anyone not covered by the law.

 

the places that are heavily accepted by native Israelis are the cities that are most targeted by terrorists. Which adds another interesting layer.

 

That is indeed an interesting point which I wasn't aware of, and does indicate that possibly there may by an element of pure anti-Semitism from some people in Palestine, however, it also depends largely on how many of these settlements are in the contested areas between for example the borders defined in the UN partition plan, and the current claimed borders.

 

Anti-semitism is still everywhere. It's ridiculous actually. Its gotten really bad in France and England. Even in America i still get yelled at sometimes or treated badly. This isn tsomething that is ever going to go away. People just love to hate!

 

This is another intriguing and to me, slightly worrying point, I live in England, and as far as I'm aware, there is nothing at the state-level discriminating against Jews, and in fact, there are very strong freedom of expression and religion laws in place in the UK, although, if you are talking about attitudes amongst the general populace, I will concede that there are a large minority of people here that still hold very bigoted views towards any kind of foreigners or 'outsiders', which wouldn't be helped by the perception (true or not) that you tend to have very inclusive and tight-knit Jewish communities, combined with the stereotypical links with the finance industry at a time where banks etc.. are vilified by many in the general public, but on the whole, people who would act in an Anti-Semitic way would generally simply be racist, and rather than targeting Jew's in particular, would be abusive to any perceived foreigner

[Arie]

This on its own to me is a fairly interesting point, as Judaism is defined differently by different groups of people, and although the actual definition of 'Jewish' used by the state of Israel is largely irrelevant to any peace process, it is still an interesting topic in its own right.

I have never ever heard. Jew refer to themselves as racially Jewish. This is something that actually has a very negative connotation to it because hitler viewed Jews as a race. He wanted to completely rid the world of the jewish race. But, it's not a race. It is our religion. You can't be racially Jewish. Yes, you can be born Jewish the same way you can be born a Christian. But, that doesn't make it a race. Does that make sense? Lol

 

I wasn't so much talking about the intention of the law when it was written, more its current application, especially against the backdrop of extreme difficulty gaining citizenship for anyone not covered by the law.

 

Right, but my point is that in order to understand it you have talk about the intention. That is the reason for it's exsistance. Yes, today, it is problematic and probably should be changed. But the law is what it is because of history. You can't take something out of it's context. It is not just difficult to gain citizenship, it is impossible! I think that's awful, but I know that's not the intention of the law. The intention of the law is not to keep everyone else out, but too allow for all Jews to have a place to go.

I have a weird analogy but it makes sense to me lol. Think about the nerdiest kids in schools. Many of them feel like they have no place to go. Let's say a group of them approached the school and asked if they could have use of an empty classroom during lunchtime to study. If the school allows only certain people to use that classroom, its not to keep others out. It to provide a place for people who have np where else to go.

Yes, with that idea in mind, the law is out of date. I think right now, Israel has a lot of bigger problems and that is why this law has not been changed. There are many organizations in Israel that are trying to get it changed. There is a huge refuge population from many different parts of Africa. I am not talking about the ethiopians. Many Africans have fled to Israel for sanctuary. I know for fact that there is at least one organization that is trying to change this law so that those refuges can become citizens.

 

That is indeed an interesting point which I wasn't aware of, and does indicate that possibly there may by an element of pure anti-Semitism from some people in Palestine, however, it also depends largely on how many of these settlements are in the contested areas between for example the borders defined in the UN partition plan, and the current claimed borders.

 

I am sure there is pure anti-semetism among some Palestinians. The same way that there are Israelis who hate Palestinians. Just the same as how racism still exists all over the world.

Some are some aren't. In fact, some of the areas that I am thinking of that have never really been attacked are across the green line. However, areas that are regularly hit, like areas near gaza, are inside the borders. It doesn't make much sense. However, none of this really does.

 

This is another intriguing and to me, slightly worrying point, I live in England, and as far as I'm aware, there is nothing at the state-level discriminating against Jews, and in fact, there are very strong freedom of expression and religion laws in place in the UK, although, if you are talking about attitudes amongst the general populace, I will concede that there are a large minority of people here that still hold very bigoted views towards any kind of foreigners or 'outsiders', which wouldn't be helped by the perception (true or not) that you tend to have very inclusive and tight-knit Jewish communities, combined with the stereotypical links with the finance industry at a time where banks etc.. are vilified by many in the general public, but on the whole, people who would act in an Anti-Semitic way would generally simply be racist, and rather than targeting Jew's in particular, would be abusive to any perceived foreigner

 

It is very worrying, but no more worrying then the rest of racism that still exists in the world. I probably shouldn't have generalized England as a whole. But, in London it has gotten a lot worse. I moved from London last year and I just started noticing a change. Whenever I go back it is not the same. Many people I know who have traveled there feel weird. My father, who still lives in london, is really starting to hate it there. It may not be state-level, but it's still there. I guess, on more of a personal level then on a wide spread. I agree, people are racist that's the bottom line. I often feel like most people hate Jews and Arabs. Jews are weird and different and Arabs have dark skin. This world just doesn't understand what it means to be different. I only single out anti-semetism because that has been my experience. But, yes, it is not to be singled out. There is too much hate in this world.

[azlan]

just to explain what I meant by Racially Jewish, I mean along the lines of 'ethnically Jewish' as on many equal opportunities questionnaires, or as discussed in the article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews#Who_is_a_Jew.3F

[Arie]

I understand what you were saying. But I'm explaining that jews don't consider themselves a race. Maybe wiki does but you can't really go just on what it says there. I have never in my life seen jewish appear on a questionare in reference to race or ethnicaty. Its just not. I'm jewish. I know. Its a religion. No jews consider their race jewish. We are white, black, indian, ect.

[Rena]

Yes I am saying exactly that. Because it is the truth, there are no Israeli terrorist organizations. No matter how you feel about Israel, that is a fact. Yes, to you, it might seem that some of Israel's action is terrorism. But, there are no terrorist organizations, that is the bottom line. And, obviously, I don't really know how Israeli's could even remotely be considered terrorists, feel free to show me some examples.

 

Two things, Palestinians are not all innocent. And, Israel takes EXTREME care to make sure no one innocent is ever killed. However, the Palestinians are the ones using children as body shields and blowing themselves up.

 

I don't exactly know what you are referring too bu "while their country is destroyed"? Which country, Israel? And, if so, um how exactly is it being destroyed?

 

Hamas is still a terrorist organization! So yeah I am going to compare them. Besides the fact that half the people being ruled by Hamas HATE Hamas. I have Arab friends, all their friends and family despise what Hamas has done to their country. I completely disagree. And farther, what Hamas does can hardly be called "defense". Something is only considered defensive when someone else attacks first. Rarely, does Israel attack first. Its one of the Army's main rules.

 

Hamas are the ones sending rocket after rocket over the border even though we are supposed to be in a cease fire. My BF is currently living 5k from Gaza. I have been on skype and the phone when the sirens have gone off. His life is in jeopardy everyday from Hamas. That is terrorism. He is innocently living his life in Israel. But, everyday something happens. Everyday I live in fear because of Hamas and other terrorist organizations. I will never support something that allows for terrorism. I will never support something that includes terrorist organizations. That's just me, but I guess other people are okay with terrorism.

 

 

Again, I am not saying Israel is perfect. Even though most of the posters on here keep twisting my words around to make it seem like I do. I keep making the same point over and over again.

 

Terrorists are terrorists... the end!! They kill and destroy. Hamas is no different then any other terrorist organization.

 

Oh, and one more thing. When the UN suggest a two state solution. Hamas was one of the groups to completely shoot that idea down. They want it all. So exactly how is that peaciful or fair?

 

 

First of all, "Israel takes EXTREME care to make sure no one innocent is ever killed." yeah right. i have a uncle who was just walking back from his job and he got shot by the israeli solidiers. And i had a 13 year old cousin who was just riding his bike when he got shot in head by a jewish sniper who was ontop of a building. Would you say thats being careful. and what about all the other thousands of innocent lives that were taken

 

When the jewish invaded Gaza, how many innocent lives did they take by throwing bombs/missles into homes and how many children were left homeless because their parents were killed?

 

ok i am not saying that all palestinians are goody two shoes. just like in every religion you have your extremist and this is a very complicated war, and of course because we are on different sides we are going to root for our side

truth is both sides have done wrong we cant just blame one side

 

you cant judge the palestinians based on a group of people

 

unless there is secure borders around our state then there can be a two state solution, we obviously cant live together in peace. and every peace talk is a joke. and the israeli want it all too, dont dispute the fact that the israelis want to share because they dont

[Arie]

First of all, "Israel takes EXTREME care to make sure no one innocent is ever killed." yeah right. i have a uncle who was just walking back from his job and he got shot by the israeli solidiers. And i had a 13 year old cousin who was just riding his bike when he got shot in head by a jewish sniper who was ontop of a building. Would you say thats being careful. and what about all the other thousands of innocent lives that were taken

 

When the jewish invaded Gaza, how many innocent lives did they take by throwing bombs/missles into homes and how many children were left homeless because their parents were killed?

 

ok i am not saying that all palestinians are goody two shoes. just like in every religion you have your extremist and this is a very complicated war, and of course because we are on different sides we are going to root for our side

truth is both sides have done wrong we cant just blame one side

 

you cant judge the palestinians based on a group of people

 

unless there is secure borders around our state then there can be a two state solution, we obviously cant live together in peace. and every peace talk is a joke. and the israeli want it all too, dont dispute the fact that the israelis want to share because they dont

 

First off, calm down. This is a place for us to talk respectfully about our opinions. Not point fingers or make judgments.

 

First off, both sides have experienced the death of innocent people. Don't assume I don't know what it's like.

 

You want to bring up gaza? How about when we were forced out of our homes for the Palestinians? I was literally physically taken out of my home. And what did the palistinians do in return? They burned everything down. Then they began to send rocket after rocket into Israel. At one point it was something like 30 missiles a day. Israel invaded because they had no other choice. The Palestinians wouldn't stop firing rockets even though there was supposed to be a cease fire. Today there are still rockets fired!!! What about that? Do you have any idea how many Israelis are homeless because of the disengagement? Do you have any idea how many people are living in poverty because we gave up gaza to the Palestinians? There are whole communities of people who live in caravans and had to leave all their belongings behind. As for innocent being killed, maybe if Hamas quite using children as human shields or hiding in schools that wouldn't happen. They are terrorists! You can't justify terrorism.

 

Okay, I am calming down now because it is just not worth it for me to fight this point. I don't support terrorism so that's my bottom line.

 

If you read my posts you would see that I said both sides were to blame. I never said Israel was completely innocent and that all the palistinians are horrible. Because I don't believe that. I also never made any generalization about Palestinians as a whole. But, I find it interesting that you bring up that point since you are making clear judgements about all Jews and Israelis on a whole.

 

I believe there can be peace. It's the people who don't think it's possible that are keeping peace from happening. Again, you should follow your own advice. Not every single Israeli is against a two state plan. So don't make generalizations. And, I will dispute that fact because it is not true. There are plenty of israelis who want peace and would be fine with a two state solution. When this was brought to the UN it was the palestinians who turned that down before Israel even said a thing. Yes, if people think how you think, then peace will never happen. Why is it impossible to live in peace? Nothing in this world is impossible however improbable it may be. But, thinking like that a d saying it will never happen. That is going to get us no where.

 

Instead there are so many things you can do! I am so involved with this cause on both ends. I support Israel because I am partly Israeli and I am Jewish. But, I also have many Arab and Palestinian friends. We talk about these ideas. We promote peace not hate. We don't point fingers at each other. Instead we form a bond over our shared experiences. These are things that more people should be doing, because hating and fighting isn't going to get anyone anywhere. It all begins with one person. One person can have a huge effect on the world. One person can cause other people to believe. That's all it takes. So instead of thinking it's impossible, why not try to promote peace? Why not try to stop hate?

[Emmas Friend]

The leaders of Palestine and Israel obviously want what is best for their people. The best thing they can give them is peace. Even if that means giving up some things, they have fought a lifetime to keep. Other countries live side by side, why can't they ?

 

You might say its easy for me to say these things, because I don't live there, and I am not affected, by the violence, security, etc. But sometimes people on the outside see things a little differently, than those who are in amongst it, so to speak.

 

Imo both sides having nothing to lose, and everything to gain if they can agree on a solution. Never mind what has happened in the past, thats history, its the future that matters.

Edited October 7, 2011 by Emmas Friend

[Rena]

First off, calm down. This is a place for us to talk respectfully about our opinions. Not point fingers or make judgments.

 

First off, both sides have experienced the death of innocent people. Don't assume I don't know what it's like.

 

You want to bring up gaza? How about when we were forced out of our homes for the Palestinians? I was literally physically taken out of my home. And what did the palistinians do in return? They burned everything down. Then they began to send rocket after rocket into Israel. At one point it was something like 30 missiles a day. Israel invaded because they had no other choice. The Palestinians wouldn't stop firing rockets even though there was supposed to be a cease fire. Today there are still rockets fired!!! What about that? Do you have any idea how many Israelis are homeless because of the disengagement? Do you have any idea how many people are living in poverty because we gave up gaza to the Palestinians? There are whole communities of people who live in caravans and had to leave all their belongings behind. As for innocent being killed, maybe if Hamas quite using children as human shields or hiding in schools that wouldn't happen. They are terrorists! You can't justify terrorism.

 

Okay, I am calming down now because it is just not worth it for me to fight this point. I don't support terrorism so that's my bottom line.

 

If you read my posts you would see that I said both sides were to blame. I never said Israel was completely innocent and that all the palistinians are horrible. Because I don't believe that. I also never made any generalization about Palestinians as a whole. But, I find it interesting that you bring up that point since you are making clear judgements about all Jews and Israelis on a whole.

 

I believe there can be peace. It's the people who don't think it's possible that are keeping peace from happening. Again, you should follow your own advice. Not every single Israeli is against a two state plan. So don't make generalizations. And, I will dispute that fact because it is not true. There are plenty of israelis who want peace and would be fine with a two state solution. When this was brought to the UN it was the palestinians who turned that down before Israel even said a thing. Yes, if people think how you think, then peace will never happen. Why is it impossible to live in peace? Nothing in this world is impossible however improbable it may be. But, thinking like that a d saying it will never happen. That is going to get us no where.

 

Instead there are so many things you can do! I am so involved with this cause on both ends. I support Israel because I am partly Israeli and I am Jewish. But, I also have many Arab and Palestinian friends. We talk about these ideas. We promote peace not hate. We don't point fingers at each other. Instead we form a bond over our shared experiences. These are things that more people should be doing, because hating and fighting isn't going to get anyone anywhere. It all begins with one person. One person can have a huge effect on the world. One person can cause other people to believe. That's all it takes. So instead of thinking it's impossible, why not try to promote peace? Why not try to stop hate?

 

what are you talking about, i was calm? im not angry and i wasnt pointed fingers i was trying to show you that we are both to blame

you also say that both sides are to blame, but in this post, you're are pointing fingers that the palestinians are the only terrorist in this war

 

all the things that are happening to the jewish people take that and times it by 2 and thats also whats happening to the palestinians

and i am not supporting terrorism, im saying we're not just going to sit there while our people are being killed and our land is being taken and we have no voice

 

like i said before, both of our sides experienced bloodshed and both sides are to blame

 

and i'm being realistic, no matter how many peace talks there will be, our sides will never live in peace because they are so used to hating each other that it wont ever change

dont get me wrong, i dont hate jewish people and im sure you dont hate arab people but in our own way we are going to be biased and i would like this to work out in peace but neither side is going to be forgiving.

 

 

the end. i hearby declare this conversation over and i hope we can still be friends (in peace)

[Arie]

Well here is where we will always be different. I believe that peace can be obtained and I will until the day I die. The attitude you have is never going to help it so why be so pessimistic? I pray everday for peace. I am involved in many organizations and different things. Me and my friends are very active with this cause.

 

Bit believing that its never going to happen? I could never think like that. Yes, peace will never happen if people think like you do. So I will always disagree because I believe in peace and I always will.

 

And, you say your not pointing fingers yet you say palestinians have suffered more then israel? How can you put a number on suffering? Do you have the math down exactly? We have both suffered. You have not suffered more. You aren't more a vicitim. We are the same. We are both to blame.

 

My comment about israel not being terrorists was just saying because there are no israeli terrorist organizations while there are plenty of palestinians. I never once claimed that israel was without fault. I never once claimed that we have suffered more or any of the things you have claimed. The only thing I claim is equality in the matter, but apparently you can't agree with that matter which is fine. We are each entitled to out opinions.

 

You can't declare this conversation over because you can't control me. You can stop responding but that is your choice.

 

I will keep posting here as long as other people do because I believe in promoting peace. I believe that I can change some of that hate in the world. It only takes little things like posting here or attending a lecture. These are things I do every dingle day because I believe in peace

[Unreal]

It's a joke that this is even happening. Israel was a country created out of force by people who think they can rule everything. The west needed a country in the middle east, and so their underlying intentions were always obvious.

 

I've done a whole depth study about the Israeli-Palestine conflict as part of my studies so I'm pretty aware of whats happened and Israel is just filled with hypocrisy and double standards. I have strong opinions about this because seeing innocent children die is wrong yet Palestine are always the terrorists? Yes there are terrorist organizations on both sides who are both complete bunches of idiots but then again you get those in every nation, cult and race. It will never justify the deaths of millions.

 

If you look at statistics then the number of Palestinian deaths over the years in comparison to Israel is incomparable. Look at Israel and how filthy rich they all are, and then look at the broken homes of the Palestinians and homeless children everywhere. I was reading a story on BBC about an old man around 60 who the Israelis just barged into his house, he was asleep, and they shot him down. His wife was praying and imagine seeing that happen before your eyes? Can that be justified?

 

If an Arab state or whatever tried to force themselves into a western country and invade it and kill the people in it, it would NEVER happen, it's unthinkable lol. I don't care if people are gonna sit here and say that Israel has no terrorist organizations. Their actions are worse than those of terrorist organizations so they can go be proud all they want.

 

And, Israel takes EXTREME care to make sure no one innocent is ever killed.

The fact that you can even say that shows the extent of your awareness on this situation.

 

 

 

Oh and my view isn't biased because I have no personal reason to defend Palestine. In fact, I dislike them for the very reason that they were huge supporters of Saddam Hussein, who among the likes of Bin Laden was one of the worst dictators, however my personal dislike for their weird tastes doesn't mean it was okay for their country to be taken from them and for war to break out like it did.

[Emmas Friend]

I just read the above post, and I thought it was way too one sided. Both sides have committed atrocities, they are both as bad as each other. The people who should carry the blame, are the leaders of both States, who cannot find a peaceful solution.

[Arie]

It's a joke that this is even happening. Israel was a country created out of force by people who think they can rule everything. The west needed a country in the middle east, and so their underlying intentions were always obvious.

 

I've done a whole depth study about the Israeli-Palestine conflict as part of my studies so I'm pretty aware of whats happened and Israel is just filled with hypocrisy and double standards. I have strong opinions about this because seeing innocent children die is wrong yet Palestine are always the terrorists? Yes there are terrorist organizations on both sides who are both complete bunches of idiots but then again you get those in every nation, cult and race. It will never justify the deaths of millions.

 

If you look at statistics then the number of Palestinian deaths over the years in comparison to Israel is incomparable. Look at Israel and how filthy rich they all are, and then look at the broken homes of the Palestinians and homeless children everywhere. I was reading a story on BBC about an old man around 60 who the Israelis just barged into his house, he was asleep, and they shot him down. His wife was praying and imagine seeing that happen before your eyes? Can that be justified?

 

If an Arab state or whatever tried to force themselves into a western country and invade it and kill the people in it, it would NEVER happen, it's unthinkable lol. I don't care if people are gonna sit here and say that Israel has no terrorist organizations. Their actions are worse than those of terrorist organizations so they can go be proud all they want.

 

 

The fact that you can even say that shows the extent of your awareness on this situation.

 

 

 

Oh and my view isn't biased because I have no personal reason to defend Palestine. In fact, I dislike them for the very reason that they were huge supporters of Saddam Hussein, who among the likes of Bin Laden was one of the worst dictators, however my personal dislike for their weird tastes doesn't mean it was okay for their country to be taken from them and for war to break out like it did.

 

I actually found your post quite comical. You make a lot of claims but I don't see much proof. I also like the fact that you claim I know nothing when you are the one who knows nothing. I lived and still live in Israel on and off. You say yourself that you have no connection at all with the land. Until you have been there and seen what goes on your knowledge is limited.

 

I especially liked the part where you claim that ever Israeli is filthy rich. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?? That is the funniest thing I have heard in a long time. There is so much poverty Israel. Do you have any idea how the people who got kicked out of Gaza are living? They live in Caravans. All their belongings are in storage and they are not allowed to get access to that stuff. Oh yeah thats a life of luxury. Not every Israeli is rich, and not every Palestinian is poor. They just built a brand new mall is Gaza... oh yeah thats poverty.

 

You may have read a lot of articles, but that doesn't make you an expert. You make a lot of claims yet I see no proof. You said yourself you have no connection so then how can you have an opinion. I live there! I was kicked out of my home! I have friends and family who have been killed by suicide bombers and the rockets. I know people who are in the army. I think that shows my awareness on the situation.

 

Also, your statistics are incorrect. Farther, so you support terrorist organizations? Well, thats interesting. Did you that 30 rockets where fired from Gaza this week into Israel? 30! Why? no reason... they felt like it. They destroyed a school and a synagogue. Why now? Israel hasn't done a thing lately! My BF has to sleep in a bomb shelter! Do you know what thats like?

 

You information is really biased actually. I would love to know how you studied this. Was it in school or did you just read the newspaper? I just want to get a handle on where you "facts" come from.

 

 

 

As usual, I agree with Emma's Friend. Both sides are equally responsible. To say otherwise is ignorant and irrelevant. We need peace not to keep fighting about whos right and whos wrong. Who cares??? Both are wrong. Lets move on, stop fighting, and fix it already! Thats my view, but if you want to keep fighting go right ahead.

[SomeBloke]

Palestine and Israel are the Middle East equivalent of Northern Ireland's "Troubles"

 

Neither side will give up their homes/land, so they go about blowing each other to pieces, whilst the average citizen gets caught in the middle.

 

Frankly, both sides need a good slap from the UN and sorted out properly.

[Revan]

I suppose it's all been already said here in the topic. I'm a Zionist Myself, and believe in cooperation rather than murder.

 

~Revan

[Majestic122]

I think that as long as religion exists, or either side is destroyed, the conflict in Israel and Palestine will continue. The combination of their in-bred hatred of eachother, the belief that they are right and the unwillingness to bargain all have their roots in religion. Until the religions disappear, which I'm afraid may never happen, there will probably be no mutual agreement.

[Revan]

I think that as long as religion exists, or either side is destroyed, the conflict in Israel and Palestine will continue. The combination of their in-bred hatred of eachother, the belief that they are right and the unwillingness to bargain all have their roots in religion. Until the religions disappear, which I'm afraid may never happen, there will probably be no mutual agreement.

 

If They were to look towards the center of their respective religions (that is, God), conflict would cease.

 

~Revan

[Majestic122]

I disagree. The christian god supports and asks his followers to commit genocide against those of different belief systematically throughout the bible. As Judaism and Islam are not very different from Christianity, it would make sense to me if that was not different for them.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Majestic122

[Arie]

I disagree. The christian god supports and asks his followers to commit genocide against those of different belief systematically throughout the bible. As Judaism and Islam are not very different from Christianity, it would make sense to me if that was not different for them.

 

Actually, in Judaism we do not have that belief. We except all those of other religions.