Jump to content


Photo

Palestine 194


  • Please log in to reply
85 replies to this topic

#81 Majestic122

Majestic122

    Novice Member

  • Fire
  • PipPip
  • 56 posts

Posted 02 February 2012 - 12:52 AM

I said don't give me ONLY OT quotes. Because everyone only quotes OT for the "bad" stuff. Never the NT. Weird ha? And oh look, all your quotes are DUHN DUHNNN from the OT. Why isn't that surprising? Tch. I've said i don't quite accept the OT numerous times.

The OT is still as much a valid part of the bible as the NT, whether you like it or not.

There are quite a few things in there that i don not fully understand or accept. It seems weird to me in many parts. I've said before that the God of the OT doesn't seem a bit fair to me, and the quotes beneath you very carefully chose to use prove it. So i am not going to defend the OT, or the Quran where it says -i think- that Allah says that he who will split someone else's blood in his name will go to Heaven.

Yeah, I agree. There's a load of wrong stuff in the OT. That the NT is much better (although "I have not come to bring peace, but a sword" still seems rather strange to me) I also agree on. But, if you do not accept the OT, do you accept creationism? Although modern science has proved that evolution is a totally viable and fitting theory, it remains an important piece in Christian dogma.

he OT, holy as it may be to numerous of people portrays a totally different era, describes things in a different way and is not to be taken literally.

Yes, I've heard this before. And I fully agree. It should not be taken literally. But phrases like the ones I have posted can't really be taken symbolically, either, can they? What's symbolical about killing people who believe differently? It's quite different from the principle "love your neighbour like yourself" (or however this translates into English), which is something I can agree on.

People who believe in God, have an understanding of love and equality, so yeah peace is what they want. You assumed above that Christians, and religious people in general don't want peace because their God demands them to commit genocide against people of different believes. It's your opinion to believe that, sadly enough. And my opinion to consider you ignorant.

I'm afraid you've quite misunderstood my message. I am not assuming that all religious people want to fight eachother because their god demands them to commit genocide. It is my belief that religion gives some people a window of opportunity, a reason to fight eachother, because their god demands them to commit genocide. As I've stated in my previous post, there are good things about religion and I acknowledge that.


Yes of course, because i have to know the bible by heart. Sadly i'm surprised you only need to know the parts of the bible-or any other sacred book- you need so to accuse God, I'm sure you haven't even read the NT or the OT for that matter. Only the parts you want. You haven't read the parts that preach love, equality, understanding, hope, faith anything at all.

You are grossly misunderstanding me again. I do not demand that you know the bible by heart. I merely stated my surprise at christians not knowing atrocious passages are in the bible. I was raised christian. I have been to christian elementary and high school. I don't, can't and won't claim that I know the bible very well, but of course I know that the bible preaches love and equality as well. As for understanding, I'm not so sure, but let's not go there. Those passages I of course support, but I think that they are basic 'rules of engagement', if you will, for developed civilizations, anyway.



There will always be fanatics. In every religion and not only. Haven't you seen fanatic anti-religious/atheist people? Blaming religion/God for everything, judging ALL the religious people the same? It's undeniably disturbing.

How lovely that you use my own words against me. But I'm afraid your argument is quite shallow compared to mine. The only thing I and the rest of the atheists on the world bring forward is words. It's kind of hard for a fanatic atheist to put into deeds anything that comes with atheism specifically, i.e. I don't believe in the existance of a deity, whereas fanatic religious people have been killing for their Gods for thousands of years. The worst you can get from a fanatic anti-religous type is a battered ego, the worst you can get from a fanatic religious type is death. It's not really comparable.

If you are referring to me, blaming religion for everything, I think and maintain that in (full circle-back to topic) the case of Israel and Palestine, the conflict still exists because of religious literalism.

Edited by Majestic122, 02 February 2012 - 12:56 AM.


#82 Lady Deadpool

Lady Deadpool

    Devoted Member

  • Earth
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,194 posts
  • Mood::blue
  • LocationMars

Posted 02 February 2012 - 09:52 AM

I'm not gonna fully respond to that^ because as Arie correctly said there is a whole other thread about this conversation. I'm just gonna answer to this because it's interesting:

I don't believe in the existance of a deity, whereas fanatic religious people have been killing for their Gods for thousands of years. The worst you can get from a fanatic anti-religous type is a battered ego, the worst you can get from a fanatic religious type is death. It's not really comparable.

If you are referring to me, blaming religion for everything, I think and maintain that in (full circle-back to topic) the case of Israel and Palestine, the conflict still exists because of religious literalism.


No. From the moment you believe in God, death of another human being from your hand is not an option. People just killed and kill in the name of God for thousands for years as an excuse for the lust for power and money. Crusades as an example. Anti-religios people, people in general that is, can kill for all kind of reasons, power and money being the most common ones.

Also I'm just gonna say that i thought you were generalizing about religious people in your previous comment, i didn't understand you referring to specific occasions. Ofc religion gives some people a window of opportunity to do horrible things. This happens throughout history. But should anyone blame religion for that? Or God? Trust me if it wasn't religion their excuse, they would find another one for their atrocious behaviour.

Edited by Provehito In Altum, 02 February 2012 - 09:52 AM.

I'm Yin, Widu is Yang.
 



Tumblr || Twitter || Instagram


Earth House!


 


#83 Majestic122

Majestic122

    Novice Member

  • Fire
  • PipPip
  • 56 posts

Posted 02 February 2012 - 12:42 PM

I'm not gonna fully respond to that^ because as Arie correctly said there is a whole other thread about this conversation. I'm just gonna answer to this because it's interesting:

Could you point me to that topic? I'd be interested to debate the topic further there.

No. From the moment you believe in God, death of another human being from your hand is not an option. People just killed and kill in the name of God for thousands for years as an excuse for the lust for power and money. Crusades as an example.

And yet the terrorists who attacked the World Trade Center believed in God. I doubt they were after power or money. They believed that if they killed as much heathens as possible, they would surely get rewarded by Allah and get a bunch of virgins in heaven. And weren't the Crusades organized to cleanse the holy land of the heathens (Saracens)? Even if it was power they were after, they maimed and killed in the name of their God, whose word they believe put into practice (because it's all there in the scripture) and were willing to die for.

Anti-religios people, people in general that is, can kill for all kind of reasons, power and money being the most common ones.

People in general do not equal anti-religious people. That's nonsense. Only 16% of the world's population is non-religious, half of which is theistic but non-religious1. Atheists account for only a fraction of this percentage. And atheists do generally not kill in name of their atheism - with the exception of the USSR under Stalin, a society flawed in many more areas. Then again, atheism doesn't have any scripture that commands you to kill.

Also I'm just gonna say that i thought you were generalizing about religious people in your previous comment, i didn't understand you referring to specific occasions. Ofc religion gives some people a window of opportunity to do horrible things. This happens throughout history. But should anyone blame religion for that? Or God? Trust me if it wasn't religion their excuse, they would find another one for their atrocious behaviour.

I'm sorry if my comments seemed unclear. And yeah, I think it is fair to put the blame on the religion for the existance of religious fanatics. Because there have been far little atheism-fueled attacks on innocent people than there have been religion-fueled.

1. Major religions ranked by size, http://www.adherents..._Adherents.html, retrieved February 2, 2012

Edited by Majestic122, 02 February 2012 - 12:43 PM.


#84 Revan

Revan

    Member

  • Wind
  • PipPipPip
  • 150 posts
  • Mood::Love
  • LocationFlorida

Posted 02 February 2012 - 06:49 PM

I'm going to pipe in here, real quick. I'll be honest: I have very strong spiritual convictions, and I have not voiced them in this particular forum. But, I've been watching the banter between groups of people that openly refer to themselves as Christians.

My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.


For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many.


We're all One, here guys. Everything else is just details. We, as Christians, agree on Jesus. We also agree with Arie on the worship of YHVH, I AM THAT I AM, the Father in Heaven. Let's be One.

And athiests: why fight so hard against something You don't believe in? Drop it, go Your way if that is what You truly believe. If You do not want Us to prosetlyze You, do not prosetlyze Us. I'll leave it at that. Much love to all of you. <3

~Revan

Edited by Revan, 02 February 2012 - 06:52 PM.

Who I am is not important; only my message is.

Slytherin House

#85 Majestic122

Majestic122

    Novice Member

  • Fire
  • PipPip
  • 56 posts

Posted 02 February 2012 - 08:03 PM

And athiests: why fight so hard against something You don't believe in? Drop it, go Your way if that is what You truly believe. If You do not want Us to prosetlyze You, do not prosetlyze Us. I'll leave it at that. Much love to all of you. <3

Because religion seems to me more than believing. It hides behind holy laws to in some cases keep people from the truth (think of teaching creationism in school - something I think should be prohibited) and in other cases hinders progress (I'm aiming at the Catholic Church here. Forbidding condoms, for example, would not help preventing AIDS in sub-Saharan Africa). I want people to be able to see the facts, what we know is true. I want people to use their mind. Think critically of that which you were taught and that which is imposed on to you in every day life. I think that is very important.
I am not out to proselytize in this topic. I am here because I stated my opinion on the case why the conflict in Israel and Palestine endures. I have been defending my opinion since, answering questions of other posters and (attempting) refuting their arguments.
I do apologize for not noticing your post at the bottom of page four, Arie. I now have and I agree, let's continue there.

#86 Ophelia

Ophelia

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 30 posts
  • Mood::curiuos
  • LocationLittle Hangleton

Posted 15 February 2012 - 03:02 PM

Things can't go on as they are in Israel! The Arabs need their own state!

I've been to Israel and the discrimination and unfairness that happened there every day made me want to SCREAM!
Doesn't the world see this injustice? You can't take aways their country without asking permission...you can't just tell them to go live somewhere else! Israel has been their home for a thousand years!!

I say it will be a long way until they will have peace in gaza. But creating a new state would be a start...although I'm sure they won't accept it without a fight if Jerusalem fell to the jews(which it certainly will).

Really, so much fuss about ONE CITY!! No one has a right to it, yet everyone has a right to it. Three great religions have their sacred places there and it wouldn't be fair to deny them access. It should belong to everyone...or no one!

Edited by Ophelia, 15 February 2012 - 03:04 PM.

It's true I don't tolerate fools but then they don't tolerate me(Maggie Smith)




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users