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Lost, how to meet God again ?


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#1 Joanne P.

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 11:26 AM

Hi everyone !

Here's the thing : I met God 3 years ago, thanks to a Christian friend. I was depressed and she brought me to a christian meeting, and I just wanted to learn about her religion because I knew it was the most important thing in her life. And then, I was listening to people singing, it was so beautiful, I suddenly felt so calm and happy, I started to cry... When my friend saw that she was so glad, because she thought I had met her God, but the point is, I knew I had experienced something really greater than me, but didn't know what exactly. SHe convinced me it was Jesus and, as I was already reading the Bible, I kept on doing it, and went to her home and her church to study it, to learn more about God.

But then, I had a hard time because my education is far from some biblic principles, for instance I strongly believe that women and men are equal and some verses don't express that at all. Plus I have some gay friends, I see them happy, and I wonder why I should disapprove this while they find a way to live their lives in a way that please them. Actually, I have beliefs but can't really generalize them. I feel I shouldn't judge others on their choices (of course I am against some behaviors, but only when they bully some people).

The second thing is that my family is not religious at all, and I can't share my beliefs with anybody. I have a boyfriend too, and he has a kind of faith but not really believe in God, more in a supernatural power.

So here's my issue : I don't know if I am a believer anymore, if I can trust everything in the Bible, if I am allowed to interpret some verses, being aware of the fact that I may interpret them in order to make things easier for me. I add that I don't go to church anymore, because I don't know which religion is the closest to my beliefs, and I don't know anybody in my town who could help me with that.

Sorry for the long story but my life is getting harder and harder without the light I had before... I want to find the way of life which will allow me to be a better myself and I have to say I need help. Thanks for reading/answering (of course don't feel like you have to be a christian to answer, any point of view is likely to help me).
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#2 Elena

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 01:51 PM

Um, I don't read the Bible, etc. I have priests in the family, 5 of them. Nobody can help you find Him, but you.

Pray a lot, every evening before bed, at least. Find a saint you like, I know this may sound odd, but find a saint through articles on religion around the web, there's so many out there; a saint whose life you admire, and you feel he/she could listen to your problems, who you feel you can connect to.

Many priests(orthodox ones) advise people to have a saint as a friend for those daily issues/problems/stress/loses/obstacles. A saint is an intermediary to God.
My friend is St. Andrew. Maybe start with him, read about his life. So that trough him, you'll find a way to believe, and to be stable in your beliefs. You can also PM me questions and stuff like that, if you need to chat with someone about things, I know it can be such a relief.

Edited by helen2U, 12 January 2012 - 01:52 PM.

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#3 Lady Deadpool

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 03:34 PM

Don't confuse the Bible with God. If you read the Old Testament, of course you'll find verses that may no sound "good" to you. I, for once, do not accept the Old testament and i am a Christian. I accept the New. Read the New Testament and if you find a verse you dont like and makes you feel bad about God or something then i'll talk about it with you

And to answer your topic there's no advice on finding God. You have to want it, you have to need it with all your heart. I believe in God and i've been a religious person all my life and yet sometimes i feel like i'm moving away from Him, i question things too, especially at times like these. I don't always feel His presence around me, not even when i pray. But i do when i'm in Church, so how about going there more regularly? Even if you don't know what belief you're closer to. How about confessing all these feelings you have to a Priest? They would know better what to answer.

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#4 Arie

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 04:30 PM

Don't confuse the Bible with God. If you read the Old Testament, of course you'll find verses that may no sound "good" to you. I, for once, do not accept the Old testament and i am a Christian. I accept the New. Read the New Testament and if you find a verse you dont like and makes you feel bad about God or something then i'll talk about it with you

And to answer your topic there's no advice on finding God. You have to want it, you have to need it with all your heart. I believe in God and i've been a religious person all my life and yet sometimes i feel like i'm moving away from Him, i question things too, especially at times like these. I don't always feel His presence around me, not even when i pray. But i do when i'm in Church, so how about going there more regularly? Even if you don't know what belief you're closer to. How about confessing all these feelings you have to a Priest? They would know better what to answer.


Sorry, I'm just wondering why you don't accept the old testament. Don't christains believe in both the old and new?

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I can't give you much advice since I am Jewish and things work differently lol. But, I do agree that no one an make you find G-D that is something you have to actively do on your own. There are people who can help teach you, but you have to make that final connection.

Also, since I am Jewish and we only accept the old tenement, I disagree. I think there are wonderful things in there to be learned. There are tons of stories that can help you. But, our old resettlement I think also differs from yours. I also would recommend the psalms, I don't know if our version is the same or not, but the psalms really helped me gain a better connection with G-D.

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#5 Elena

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 04:56 PM

Sorry, I'm just wondering why you don't accept the old testament. Don't christains believe in both the old and new?

------------

I can't give you much advice since I am Jewish and things work differently lol. But, I do agree that no one an make you find G-D that is something you have to actively do on your own. There are people who can help teach you, but you have to make that final connection.

Also, since I am Jewish and we only accept the old tenement, I disagree. I think there are wonderful things in there to be learned. There are tons of stories that can help you. But, our old resettlement I think also differs from yours. I also would recommend the psalms, I don't know if our version is the same or not, but the psalms really helped me gain a better connection with G-D.


it depends from person to person, I don't break the bible down to fragments and discuss it. I just go to church and listen to what the priest says.
Sometimes my mind wanders. Is the Tora much different than the Bible? That I can't say, and if psalms differ....I'm more on the spiritual side than the religious, I just believe and don't doubt nor debate. Much.

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#6 Lady Deadpool

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 08:55 PM

Sorry, I'm just wondering why you don't accept the old testament. Don't christains believe in both the old and new?

Christians do accept both, the Bible in whole. I don't however, and many other people don't as well. Orthodox Christians mostly. Catholics seem to pay more attention to the old rather than the New which seems odd to me. It is believed that the original Old testament that was burnt during the fire in the library of Alexandria, was written again after, altered on purpose by 70 Jews writers. It is known as the translation of the 70. There are many theories about it, none was actually proven if i am right--so i can't back up that opinion. I'm just saying.
Also I may sound blunt i must apologize if i may sound offensive but i don't like the Old Testament because it's a bunch of Jewish stories, showing that the Jews are the chosen people and God loves no one but them. Then again maybe because it was written by Jews in a totally different era. The Old Testament portrays a fearful and in my opinion unfair God. Would a God of love kill little children to punish Egyptians? Would a God of love command "Eye for an eye"? Would a God of love be in favor of slaves? Would a God of love consider His creation Women, inferior that His other creation, Men? It is not a coinsidence that whoever wants to insult Christians or religion or God, refers ONLY to verses from the OT and never from the NT.
There are stories and symbols inside the Old Testament that have a great meaning, and it prepares us for the coming of Jesus, i reckon, but for me that's it. The New Testament, on the other hand, is Holy to me.

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#7 Joanne P.

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 08:56 PM

Thanks a lot for answering me :)

I know that I am the only one who can do something about finding God. I just need some people to care about my relationship with Him, I reckon, to approve and respect it, maybe. And your advices are all interesting, and I like talking about religion with believers. I love the Old testament, but to me it's more like stories, and it's not very modern in some ways (but of course I am not speaking of the main messages, only of details). But yes, I believe Psalms are very helpful, and beautiful too.

Arie, I am glad to be able to talk with a Jewish, because I'm interested in all religions, and I personally believe that God uses different paths to reach different people... Maybe that's why I feel uncomfortable with Christians, sometimes : I can't say "My religion is the best, the truest one". I mean, it implies that the others are lying to you or to theirselves when they chose another religion, because if there is a "best" religion, then you're not really close to God when you go for another. I don't know if I'm being very clear...
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#8 Joanne P.

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 09:18 PM

Don't confuse the Bible with God. If you read the Old Testament, of course you'll find verses that may no sound "good" to you. I, for once, do not accept the Old testament and i am a Christian. I accept the New. Read the New Testament and if you find a verse you dont like and makes you feel bad about God or something then i'll talk about it with you


And I forgot to answer to this but the thing is, I've talked with evangelist protestants, and I was told that each word of the Bible was a word of God, etc. Now I know that not everybody share this belief but as it is the first thing I heard, and from people I do respect, it is hard to decide who is right. And I ask these questions when I pray, but how to get an answer ?
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#9 sarahelizabeth

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 09:31 PM

When you pray all your praying it comes form your heart within
you pray by faith you pray because you believe!!
If you are asking for god for things! it will take time he will do it on his own will!

Praying makes your faith and your belief in what you believe in Stronger!!
the more you pray the more you read your word the more you study the closer you can get to god!!
I been an Chrsitain for 6 years and I Am still learning everyday!! so

and There is days where i dont feel close to god and days i do

Edited by sarahelizabeth, 12 January 2012 - 09:31 PM.

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#10 Joanne P.

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 10:03 PM

thanks... it helps me to hear about your route... I guess I have to pray more often, it's true.
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#11 Arie

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 10:06 PM

Christians do accept both, the Bible in whole. I don't however, and many other people don't as well. Orthodox Christians mostly. Catholics seem to pay more attention to the old rather than the New which seems odd to me. It is believed that the original Old testament that was burnt during the fire in the library of Alexandria, was written again after, altered on purpose by 70 Jews writers. It is known as the translation of the 70. There are many theories about it, none was actually proven if i am right--so i can't back up that opinion. I'm just saying.
Also I may sound blunt i must apologize if i may sound offensive but i don't like the Old Testament because it's a bunch of Jewish stories, showing that the Jews are the chosen people and God loves no one but them. Then again maybe because it was written by Jews in a totally different era. The Old Testament portrays a fearful and in my opinion unfair God. Would a God of love kill little children to punish Egyptians? Would a God of love command "Eye for an eye"? Would a God of love be in favor of slaves? Would a God of love consider His creation Women, inferior that His other creation, Men? It is not a coinsidence that whoever wants to insult Christians or religion or God, refers ONLY to verses from the OT and never from the NT.
There are stories and symbols inside the Old Testament that have a great meaning, and it prepares us for the coming of Jesus, i reckon, but for me that's it. The New Testament, on the other hand, is Holy to me.


I have heard that story before but I didnt know there where people who actually believed it as there is no proof. To be blunt, I am pretty shocked that anyone would suggest Jews are following a bible that we just happened to create. I am not offended because I know you don't mean to offended me personally, but it is a bit shocking to learn that there are people out there who basically think my religion is a joke. We obviously believe that the old testament is the word of G-D and was written by Moses as G-D told him too.
Those may be Jewish stories, but they are the bases of your religion as well. They aren't just made up out of nowhere. In regard to the things you have written about the eygyptians, at that time Eygypt was the most sinful nations. They were engaging in all kinds of horrible things which is why the cause for punishment. The things you have written sound bad when they stand alone, but that is because you are not including crucial details. Also, an "eye for an eye" is not meant to be taken literally. Where does it ever say that G-D is in favour of slavery? One of the reasons Eygypt was punished was because of slavery. Also, I have no idea where you came up with the idea that women are inferior to men. And, on the contrary I have heard many people say negative things about the new testament and not the old Testement.
I just find it rather shocking that you believe that my religion is pretty much made up. From a story that has no actual proof. I respect every religion out there. I respect everyone's beliefs whatever they may be. But to suggest that I am following something my ancestors made up? I just can't understand that. Especially since your religion stems from the old Testement. There would be no new without the old.

On the other hand, our bible does differ from the christain version of the old testament. So some of the problems you have may be what's writtin in your, but there are many differences. I took a class on it once. I would love to talk to you about it more. I am very interested to hear what points bother you ect. Especially since we have such different ways of understanding the texts. Of course, if you do truly believe that story about the 70 Jews then I guess there is nothing to really talk about. But, if you would like, I would love to talk about this more! It is fascinating, don't you think? Just talk about the differences and how we understand different things. Idk, I always like to get the other side.

(oh and I am sorry of my post offended you in anyway, you know that I love you dearly and that it was not meant to!)

Arie, I am glad to be able to talk with a Jewish, because I'm interested in all religions, and I personally believe that God uses different paths to reach different people... Maybe that's why I feel uncomfortable with Christians, sometimes : I can't say "My religion is the best, the truest one". I mean, it implies that the others are lying to you or to theirselves when they chose another religion, because if there is a "best" religion, then you're not really close to God when you go for another. I don't know if I'm being very clear...


Oh cool! Well then I am happy I posted here and am glad to be of help if I can be! I love learning about different religions as well! I agree with that, I think that if G-D didn't meant for there to be different religions, there wouldn't be. I understand what you are saying. In the end of day we all believe in the same G-D. But, we all have different ways of reaching or connecting to him. It is up to each person to find the best way too connect for themselves. For me it's prayer and learning. Our prayer service is very interactive and it helps me connect to G-D on a personal level. I also love charity work that helps me feel inspired.

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#12 Joanne P.

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 10:20 PM

This topic is getting very interesting in my opinion ! That's what I'm looking for, people who can debate without fighting, because you've thought of all these subjects a lot and sharing is so important !

About the Old testament telling that men are better than women, I had this feeling too the first time I read Genesis, because the woman comes after the man, it's a strong symbol in my opinion. And also, the woman is made from the man ! It's strange, don't you think so ? Maybe I'm being paranoiac, because it can be understood in other ways but since women have been, and are still in some countries, socially oppressed for centuries, I feel bad each time I read these verses. I am very sensitive on this subject ;) And I'd like very much to know what is your opinion on the topic.
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#13 Lady Deadpool

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 11:00 PM

And I forgot to answer to this but the thing is, I've talked with evangelist protestants, and I was told that each word of the Bible was a word of God, etc. Now I know that not everybody share this belief but as it is the first thing I heard, and from people I do respect, it is hard to decide who is right. And I ask these questions when I pray, but how to get an answer ?

To me, that's the fascinating thing about religion and spiritual matters. There is no obvious answer and no easy way. You can't know for sure with facts who is right and who's not. If we knew that then there would be no atheists, or people from different believes. You have to choose what feels right for you, you know? It's like you can't prove the existence of God, but you can feel it. Each person has a different way, i don't think that anyone can convince you that this religion is right or that religion is not right.

I have heard that story before but I didnt know there where people who actually believed it as there is no proof. To be blunt, I am pretty shocked that anyone would suggest Jews are following a bible that we just happened to create. I am not offended because I know you don't mean to offended me personally, but it is a bit shocking to learn that there are people out there who basically think my religion is a joke. We obviously believe that the old testament is the word of G-D and was written by Moses as G-D told him too.
Those may be Jewish stories, but they are the bases of your religion as well. They aren't just made up out of nowhere. In regard to the things you have written about the eygyptians, at that time Eygypt was the most sinful nations. They were engaging in all kinds of horrible things which is why the cause for punishment. The things you have written sound bad when they stand alone, but that is because you are not including crucial details. Also, an "eye for an eye" is not meant to be taken literally. Where does it ever say that G-D is in favour of slavery? One of the reasons Eygypt was punished was because of slavery. Also, I have no idea where you came up with the idea that women are inferior to men. And, on the contrary I have heard many people say negative things about the new testament and not the old Testement.
I just find it rather shocking that you believe that my religion is pretty much made up. From a story that has no actual proof. I respect every religion out there. I respect everyone's beliefs whatever they may be. But to suggest that I am following something my ancestors made up? I just can't understand that. Especially since your religion stems from the old Testement. There would be no new without the old.

On the other hand, our bible does differ from the christain version of the old testament. So some of the problems you have may be what's writtin in your, but there are many differences. I took a class on it once. I would love to talk to you about it more. I am very interested to hear what points bother you ect. Especially since we have such different ways of understanding the texts. Of course, if you do truly believe that story about the 70 Jews then I guess there is nothing to really talk about. But, if you would like, I would love to talk about this more! It is fascinating, don't you think? Just talk about the differences and how we understand different things. Idk, I always like to get the other side.

(oh and I am sorry of my post offended you in anyway, you know that I love you dearly and that it was not meant to!)

Nowhere did i imply i believe your religion is made up. You may believe Moses wrote the OT under God with dinive help, as i believe the same about NT. I just said that OT is consisted of symbolic stories that are just "too much" for me and it just strikes me with a surprise as to why the OT speaks about the Jews only like they're the only people God cares about, like a Jewish propaganda of that era long ago of some sort, whereas the NT speaks about God's love and equality for all nations not just the Jews, ex. the epistoles. I am not saying the OT isn't Holy or shouldn't be considered part of the Bible, or your religion etc. I'm just saying that only for me. That by growing up and reading more about it, i'm really much more cautious when it comes to OT. There's something i don't really like about it and i can't really define it, maybe because i don't understand it completely? Maybe because i cannot express it in English well enough perhaps?

About the slavery example my OT is in Ancient Greek so it would take so much time to look it up and translate so i looked it up online (i usually don't trust the online sources so feel free to correct me if the verse is wrong) "However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)" --Now, that's not something a God who loves everyone equally and not just the Jews, would say.

About the Old testament telling that men are better than women, I had this feeling too the first time I read Genesis, because the woman comes after the man, it's a strong symbol in my opinion. And also, the woman is made from the man ! It's strange, don't you think so ? Maybe I'm being paranoiac, because it can be understood in other ways but since women have been, and are still in some countries, socially oppressed for centuries, I feel bad each time I read these verses. I am very sensitive on this subject ;) And I'd like very much to know what is your opinion on the topic.

Actually that part shows the equality in both sexes. The woman been made from the man is symbolic. By being made from his side shows she's equal to him. Not from his upper body which would make her superior, not by his lower body which would make her inferior. However there are other verses in the OT which imply the position of woman should be minor to this of the man. Now God would never want that, but these books were written to portray the system of this era.

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#14 Arie

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 11:26 PM

To me, that's the fascinating thing about religion and spiritual matters. There is no obvious answer and no easy way. You can't know for sure with facts who is right and who's not. If we knew that then there would be no atheists, or people from different believes. You have to choose what feels right for you, you know? It's like you can't prove the existence of God, but you can feel it. Each person has a different way, i don't think that anyone can convince you that this religion is right or that religion is not right.


Nowhere did i imply i believe your religion is made up. You may believe Moses wrote the OT under God with dinive help, as i believe the same about NT. I just said that OT is consisted of symbolic stories that are just "too much" for me and it just strikes me with a surprise as to why the OT speaks about the Jews only like they're the only people God cares about, like a Jewish propaganda of that era long ago of some sort, whereas the NT speaks about God's love and equality for all nations not just the Jews, ex. the epistoles. I am not saying the OT isn't Holy or shouldn't be considered part of the Bible, or your religion etc. I'm just saying that only for me. That by growing up and reading more about it, i'm really much more cautious when it comes to OT. There's something i don't really like about it and i can't really define it, maybe because i don't understand it completely? Maybe because i cannot express it in English well enough perhaps?

About the slavery example my OT is in Ancient Greek so it would take so much time to look it up and translate so i looked it up online (i usually don't trust the online sources so feel free to correct me if the verse is wrong) "However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)" --Now, that's not something a God who loves everyone equally and not just the Jews, would say.


Well, I guess I misunderstood what you were saying. But when you write that you feel that the old Testement is Jewish propoganda that kind of seems like you are implying it's made up by Jews. I could just be misunderstanding what you are writting. Also, the old Testement does not only speak about Jews. For example, Judaism was not created as a religion yet. Therefore, some of the characters in it we do not believe we're actually Jewish. They were just people. Peole with higher morals and perhaps some sort of holiness to them. But, they were not strictly Jewish. So here is my question then. I understand your issues feeling that the old Testement puts Jews ahead of other religions or nations, I personally do not feel that way. So then how do you explain how in the new Testement it is written that those who do not except Jesus are sinners and should therefore go to hell. I have literally been told by certain christains that I a, going to hell. So is that not too putting one nation above another? Or is that not an idea excepted by all Christians. I am sorry but my knowledge is limited in this case lol. I get what you are saying about not understanding it. I think are biggest difference is because we are taught that things mean different things. I mean even translations, I know the old Testement from the ancient Hebrew that it was orginially written in. I have no idea how the Greek version compares. Intentional or not, translation changes things. I bet you can even agree with me that English translations are usually the worst. Also it is true that the church and Judaism do explain certain stories very very differently.

Oh I know what you are referring too. But we have it written extremely differently. In our bible it talks about basically the protocol of if for some reason you were too own a slave. Basically covering the rules. We take it as G-D did not Support ownership of slaves, but if for any reason a Jew did own a slave here is set of rules for what should be done. I have to look it up and get back to you. But it is very detailed. You can only own a slave for as much as like a year and there tons of rules about how to treat a slave ect. But it is understood that this was not regular practice. Again, it is written much differently in our version. Seems silly that it is different. Which makes me wonder. Perhaps the christain old Testement differs so much from the Jewish one which would explain why christains may feel badly about the old Testement or even Jews. I wonder. Doesn't that make you wonder? I mean what else is different? What other things upset you that may be written differently in ours? It's weird because it shouldn't be different at all. I mean the christain old Testement should be the exact same as our Torah. Don't you think?
And, one more thing about the slavery that I forgot to write above. With everything you always have to remember the time at which these things were originally written. We live in a time were slavery is a horrifying idea. But, in ancient times that wasn't the case. It was common. No ever said that certain ideas weren't outdated. No Jew today would tell you that it is okay to have a non-Jewish slave! Ancient times were very different. I am sure there are plenty examples of such in the new Testement as well. I think it is important for me to also tell you this. We have what's called the oral texts as well. The mishnah and the gemarah. These too are pretty ancient but they are basically notes on how to properly understand certain things from the old Testement. Certain laws an such. So some of those ancient ideas like slavery or issues with women. We understand differently because we have other texts. That could be another difference for why we understand certain things much differently.

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#15 Lady Deadpool

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 12:05 AM

Well, I guess I misunderstood what you were saying. But when you write that you feel that the old Testement is Jewish propoganda that kind of seems like you are implying it's made up by Jews. I could just be misunderstanding what you are writting. Also, the old Testement does not only speak about Jews. For example, Judaism was not created as a religion yet. Therefore, some of the characters in it we do not believe we're actually Jewish. They were just people. Peole with higher morals and perhaps some sort of holiness to them. But, they were not strictly Jewish. So here is my question then. I understand your issues feeling that the old Testement puts Jews ahead of other religions or nations, I personally do not feel that way. So then how do you explain how in the new Testement it is written that those who do not except Jesus are sinners and should therefore go to hell. I have literally been told by certain christains that I a, going to hell. So is that not too putting one nation above another? Or is that not an idea excepted by all Christians. I am sorry but my knowledge is limited in this case lol. I get what you are saying about not understanding it. I think are biggest difference is because we are taught that things mean different things. I mean even translations, I know the old Testement from the ancient Hebrew that it was orginially written in. I have no idea how the Greek version compares. Intentional or not, translation changes things. I bet you can even agree with me that English translations are usually the worst. Also it is true that the church and Judaism do explain certain stories very very differently.

Oh I know what you are referring too. But we have it written extremely differently. In our bible it talks about basically the protocol of if for some reason you were too own a slave. Basically covering the rules. We take it as G-D did not Support ownership of slaves, but if for any reason a Jew did own a slave here is set of rules for what should be done. I have to look it up and get back to you. But it is very detailed. You can only own a slave for as much as like a year and there tons of rules about how to treat a slave ect. But it is understood that this was not regular practice. Again, it is written much differently in our version. Seems silly that it is different. Which makes me wonder. Perhaps the christain old Testement differs so much from the Jewish one which would explain why christains may feel badly about the old Testement or even Jews. I wonder. Doesn't that make you wonder? I mean what else is different? What other things upset you that may be written differently in ours? It's weird because it shouldn't be different at all. I mean the christain old Testement should be the exact same as our Torah. Don't you think?
And, one more thing about the slavery that I forgot to write above. With everything you always have to remember the time at which these things were originally written. We live in a time were slavery is a horrifying idea. But, in ancient times that wasn't the case. It was common. No ever said that certain ideas weren't outdated. No Jew today would tell you that it is okay to have a non-Jewish slave! Ancient times were very different. I am sure there are plenty examples of such in the new Testement as well. I think it is important for me to also tell you this. We have what's called the oral texts as well. The mishnah and the gemarah. These too are pretty ancient but they are basically notes on how to properly understand certain things from the old Testement. Certain laws an such. So some of those ancient ideas like slavery or issues with women. We understand differently because we have other texts. That could be another difference for why we understand certain things much differently.

I didn't mean Jews as a religion, i meant the people of Israel as a nation. I often make that mistake. About the Jesus part it doesn't say anything about nations. I mean there is not one nation that believes in Jesus. It talks about people in general. It doesn't refer to the superiority of one nation above all the others. About the hell part now i think most religions say that, if i'm not mistaken. Muslims also say that if you don't believe in Allah you're going to Hell too. So apparently if that were the case, we're all going to hell lol. In all seriousness i can not understand how God works, how He will judge us individually, based on actions believes etc, so even if i'm a Christian, even if the NT is Holy to me and it says that whoever don't believe in Jesus will go to Hell, i can't say it, i cannot understand it or prove it that the non-believers will go to Hell, because i refuse to believe that a person who has devoted himself doing the good thing and helping others but believes in another God or no God at all should be punished that way.

And about the translations pleaseeee ikr? I doubt there is one good out there. Our both languages, Hebrew and Greek come both from Ancient languages and even though there is a continuity it's so difficult those meaning in those dead languages to be translated into the new language with precision. Let alone in the other languages that have no relation whatsoever with the dead language. And apart from that fact, each person could understand and say and even write a story or even a whole book so much differently. So yes as you said these texts are so much different than each other and frankly all these differences and the dead end is what fascinates me.

About the slavery, that was my point, the OT was written in an era when slavery was normal and men were indeed superior than women. But so was the NT yet nowhere in the NT it says about slaves, Jesus talked about love and equality. The Apostles talked about equality in the name of God for both sexes for all nations for all people. Besides both Testaments were supposed to carry the Divine Word, so why the words of God in the OT are so much different than the NT. That's all i'm saying.

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#16 Arie

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 12:24 AM

I didn't mean Jews as a religion, i meant the people of Israel as a nation. I often make that mistake. About the Jesus part it doesn't say anything about nations. I mean there is not one nation that believes in Jesus. It talks about people in general. It doesn't refer to the superiority of one nation above all the others. About the hell part now i think most religions say that, if i'm not mistaken. Muslims also say that if you don't believe in Allah you're going to Hell too. So apparently if that were the case, we're all going to hell lol. In all seriousness i can not understand how God works, how He will judge us individually, based on actions believes etc, so even if i'm a Christian, even if the NT is Holy to me and it says that whoever don't believe in Jesus will go to Hell, i can't say it, i cannot understand it or prove it that the non-believers will go to Hell, because i refuse to believe that a person who has devoted himself doing the good thing and helping others but believes in another God or no God at all should be punished that way.

And about the translations pleaseeee ikr? I doubt there is one good out there. Our both languages, Hebrew and Greek come both from Ancient languages and even though there is a continuity it's so difficult those meaning in those dead languages to be translated into the new language with precision. Let alone in the other languages that have no relation whatsoever with the dead language. And apart from that fact, each person could understand and say and even write a story or even a whole book so much differently. So yes as you said these texts are so much different than each other and frankly all these differences and the dead end is what fascinates me.

About the slavery, that was my point, the OT was written in an era when slavery was normal and men were indeed superior than women. But so was the NT yet nowhere in the NT it says about slaves, Jesus talked about love and equality. The Apostles talked about equality in the name of God for both sexes for all nations for all people. Besides both Testaments were supposed to carry the Divine Word, so why the words of God in the OT are so much different than the NT. That's all i'm saying.


Ahhh much to respond too lol. Okay here I go.

Okay I think I get what your saying about the nations and I understand that. I am not sure about Muslim beliefs so I can't shed any light on that. I totally agree with the rest of what you said. I use this in real life too. Like, if I am with girl and they are being super judgmental I'll turn to them and say,"I am not G-D and neither are you, so you shouldn't be judging thats his job." Thats abig thing for me. That we shouldn't judge or assume we know what's going to happen. I mean, I don't believe in hell anyway so I don't think anyone is going to hell. We have a very different way of understand afterlife which is a whole different conversation. I mean we believe in punishment it's just different then hell sort of. I totally agree!!

I know the translation sucks. I went to Jewish private schools my whole life so I learned from a young age how to understand the ancient Hebrew. I never use translation. I totally agree!! There is a saying, with translation comes interpretation or something like that. I don't know how to feel about the differences. It kind of worries me. Like why aren't they the same? Idk.

So what I was trying to explain before is how we understand all those things is that this was written during a time when this existed. We believe the bible is basically a set of rules. So since this existed at that time there needed to be some sort of rules about it. It's more of a, this shouldn't happen, but if it does here is how to deal with it. Also, in reference to slavery, we have a different more detailed version of what you posted. Perhaps you wouldn't find it as strange. I don't know why the word of G-D is so different. I mean, in my opinion there is so much about love and having a relationship with G-D in the old Testement. I also don't follow the new Testement so I don't have much opinion on why it differs so much. I mean the fact is while both are ancient they are still from very different times. I mean the old Testement itself covers thousands of years. Also, the Torah does not just consist of the five books of Moses for us. I never understood why christains only sort of use part. We also have the prophets and what called writings. Prophets is basically the continuation after Moses. Writtings is a combination of things like psalms and other ummmm idk the words in English lol. So we do have other writting in our old Testement that are filled with love and equality ect. But, christains don't get to see that part.

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#17 Lady Deadpool

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 12:55 AM

So what I was trying to explain before is how we understand all those things is that this was written during a time when this existed. We believe the bible is basically a set of rules. So since this existed at that time there needed to be some sort of rules about it. It's more of a, this shouldn't happen, but if it does here is how to deal with it. Also, in reference to slavery, we have a different more detailed version of what you posted. Perhaps you wouldn't find it as strange. I don't know why the word of G-D is so different. I mean, in my opinion there is so much about love and having a relationship with G-D in the old Testement. I also don't follow the new Testement so I don't have much opinion on why it differs so much. I mean the fact is while both are ancient they are still from very different times. I mean the old Testement itself covers thousands of years. Also, the Torah does not just consist of the five books of Moses for us. I never understood why christains only sort of use part. We also have the prophets and what called writings. Prophets is basically the continuation after Moses. Writtings is a combination of things like psalms and other ummmm idk the words in English lol. So we do have other writting in our old Testement that are filled with love and equality ect. But, christains don't get to see that part.

Psalms is what i love the most, but the Orthodox Churches don't chant any OT psalms just NT. I don't really know, i mean i'm sure your version of the OT must be different than ours, or more full? I haven't searched it. But for some reason it makes me want to be distant i can't really understand why i don't accept it. Maybe the way i grew in? Maybe our translations? Our culture? Maybe i got it wrong from the beginning? I dunno. But i know one thing, i love these kind of conversations so much :P

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#18 Karen

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 12:57 AM

Hi everyone !

Here's the thing : I met God 3 years ago, thanks to a Christian friend. I was depressed and she brought me to a christian meeting, and I just wanted to learn about her religion because I knew it was the most important thing in her life. And then, I was listening to people singing, it was so beautiful, I suddenly felt so calm and happy, I started to cry... When my friend saw that she was so glad, because she thought I had met her God, but the point is, I knew I had experienced something really greater than me, but didn't know what exactly. SHe convinced me it was Jesus and, as I was already reading the Bible, I kept on doing it, and went to her home and her church to study it, to learn more about God.

But then, I had a hard time because my education is far from some biblic principles, for instance I strongly believe that women and men are equal and some verses don't express that at all. Plus I have some gay friends, I see them happy, and I wonder why I should disapprove this while they find a way to live their lives in a way that please them. Actually, I have beliefs but can't really generalize them. I feel I shouldn't judge others on their choices (of course I am against some behaviors, but only when they bully some people).

The second thing is that my family is not religious at all, and I can't share my beliefs with anybody. I have a boyfriend too, and he has a kind of faith but not really believe in God, more in a supernatural power.

So here's my issue : I don't know if I am a believer anymore, if I can trust everything in the Bible, if I am allowed to interpret some verses, being aware of the fact that I may interpret them in order to make things easier for me. I add that I don't go to church anymore, because I don't know which religion is the closest to my beliefs, and I don't know anybody in my town who could help me with that.

Sorry for the long story but my life is getting harder and harder without the light I had before... I want to find the way of life which will allow me to be a better myself and I have to say I need help. Thanks for reading/answering (of course don't feel like you have to be a christian to answer, any point of view is likely to help me).


Hey Joanne! I'm so glad you posted here and I really hope I can help you.
I had a similar experience with God last April, I went to a Passion play (about Easter) through Christian fellowship at my school and during the final prayer I started to cry and I really truly believe that the Holy Spirit spoke to me. My entire life has been changed! I can tell you all about it if you message me, I'd go into more detail here but I want to address all of your issue :)

I too have gay friends and I also believe that men and women should be equal. I personally believe that everyone is perfect in who they are because God created them, gay straight, skinny, curvy, whatever it is, He made us and it's up to us to find our identity in Him. The Bible has some pretty interesting phrases about women and men equality, but what I've gotten out of the Bible is that women are to be treated gently, and I actually wanted an interesting clip yesterday about abuse of women - a pastor was yelling at the men in his congregation who might abuse women because they are harming God's daughters and therefore they shouldn't be asking God for help on anything except repenting. Off topic, but yeah. I think the Bible can be open for interpretation and it's also important to remember the time at which the Bible was written. Even though it was written of the span of some hundreds of years with the different authors and such, it was a very different time.

I understand what it's like to have a family who doesn't really understand what it means to be Christian or to know God. My uncle mike is a very religious catholic and so is my gram, but I was catholic until I found God in April and now I consider myself a born-again Christian. My other family members aren't religious and I know they admire me but still don't know how to wrap their heads around the new me. The truth is, people are going to judge you - even your family. I know, trust me. But no one ever said being a Christian was going to be easy. In fact, Jesus says, "take up your cross and follow me". That gives me strength in hard times because I KNOW that loving God isn't always a cake walk. It's a tough journey, full of twists and hardship.

I'm really happy that you said you want to find the light of life because the fact that you want to find it, means you are searching for it already! I don't know how to stress to you that religion, the Bible, church - those are all man-made things. They are there to guide you, but they don't define you. A relationship with God, on the other hand, is a perfect thing that is something only you can find for yourself in Him. I would also like to stress that you don't need to find a denominational church - there are plenty of non-denominational churches that have great worship and sermons. I'd like to show you this video: http://www.youtube.c...h?v=1IAhDGYlpqY. It highlights that a relationship with God is much more important than a "religion" because there are plenty of people who call themselves religious but don't actually know God.

I would suggest that if you're in school, you get involved with a Christian fellowship there or go "church hopping" (I invented that phrase :P) in your town to see which church you like the best. I did that with churches around boston and I ended up with a great one! It's all about what you feel comfortable with, and you will eventually find one.

Don't confuse the Bible with God. If you read the Old Testament, of course you'll find verses that may no sound "good" to you. I, for once, do not accept the Old testament and i am a Christian. I accept the New. Read the New Testament and if you find a verse you dont like and makes you feel bad about God or something then i'll talk about it with you

And to answer your topic there's no advice on finding God. You have to want it, you have to need it with all your heart. I believe in God and i've been a religious person all my life and yet sometimes i feel like i'm moving away from Him, i question things too, especially at times like these. I don't always feel His presence around me, not even when i pray.


I agree, sometimes I feel God and sometimes I don't. I think everyone has felt that way at some point! It's all about finding what brings you closer to God, not what other people say should. For example, when I was a Catholic PEOPLE said that getting sacraments brings me closer to God, going to church, receiving the Eucharist would help me feel a connection. It didn't. At all. Now, the church I go to (actually both - one during the school year, one during the summer) has amazing sermons and music both. That's what helps ME, but what helps you might be something different.

Christians do accept both, the Bible in whole. I don't however, and many other people don't as well. Orthodox Christians mostly. Catholics seem to pay more attention to the old rather than the New which seems odd to me.
Also I may sound blunt i must apologize if i may sound offensive but i don't like the Old Testament because it's a bunch of Jewish stories, showing that the Jews are the chosen people and God loves no one but them. Then again maybe because it was written by Jews in a totally different era. The Old Testament portrays a fearful and in my opinion unfair God.

There are stories and symbols inside the Old Testament that have a great meaning, and it prepares us for the coming of Jesus, i reckon, but for me that's it. The New Testament, on the other hand, is Holy to me.


You're right Dina, Christians do accept both. I've noticed as well that a lot of Catholics know the Old Testament fairly well, and some of the people in Christian Fellowship at my school don't know it at all. I personally don't think you can know one without knowing the other. It's important to know the Bible inside and out.

Most Christians accept the new testament more than the old because the new Testament focuses on the core of our belief, Jesus - that's why it's so important to us. However, the OT focuses a lot on the history of the New Testament, why things are the way they are. I think both are fascinating, and one of my favorite stories is from the OT - The story of Esther. She was one cool woman!!

Maybe that's why I feel uncomfortable with Christians, sometimes : I can't say "My religion is the best, the truest one". I mean, it implies that the others are lying to you or to theirselves when they chose another religion, because if there is a "best" religion, then you're not really close to God when you go for another. I don't know if I'm being very clear...


I think this is a great point, and one that a lot of people struggle with. From what I have seen, researched, and heard testimonies on, I've come to believe that God is God and everyone has a different name for Him. I don't even believe that He has a gender, Christians just call Him a Him because fathers are supposed to be comforting figures, takes care of everything, etc. In my book, there IS definitely something else out there, it's just how we define it. We can't let religion, a man made thing, to get in between our relationship with God!


And I forgot to answer to this but the thing is, I've talked with evangelist protestants, and I was told that each word of the Bible was a word of God, etc. Now I know that not everybody share this belief but as it is the first thing I heard, and from people I do respect, it is hard to decide who is right. And I ask these questions when I pray, but how to get an answer ?


This was also something I've struggled with. By the way, feel free to message me at ANY time if you have any questions or want to talk, ok? I'm always open and ready to listen :)
I used to pray and say the same words and not know what they meant or how to make them personal. I never thought I heard God. I realized though, once I stopped asking for things and just started listening, God's voice became clearer. For me, it's not a man's voice - it's my voice - but it's usually when a thought comes into my head out of nowhere, an answer to a question, or something that is persuading me one way. It's important to take a step back and look at how you're interacting with God
- are you asking for things more than asking for answers? Are you talking more instead of listening? I found that when I just sat, put on some christian music in the background, and listened, I heard God a whole lot clearer. That really helped me! The idea is, it's not HOW you say the words, it's the fact that you make the effort to say them at all. God knows whats on our hearts, He's GOD. He knows everything! But it's the effort it takes to tell them to God that makes Him appreciate it.

When I was saved, I was talking to a girl from Christian fellowship at my old school and she said what really helped her when she was learning to pray was to put a chair across from her and pretend that God was sitting in it. I mean, technically He IS..but I digress. Just talk to God like He's your dad, brother, best friend, what have you, because He's all those things and more. You don't need special prayers for Him to listen to you, just talk and say what's on your heart.

When you pray all your praying it comes form your heart within
you pray by faith you pray because you believe!!
If you are asking for god for things! it will take time he will do it on his own will!

Praying makes your faith and your belief in what you believe in Stronger!!
the more you pray the more you read your word the more you study the closer you can get to god!!
I been an Chrsitain for 6 years and I Am still learning everyday!! so

and There is days where i dont feel close to god and days i do


You are right Sarah :) Being a Christian is a relationship, and it's a journey. If we ever stop learning while being a Christian, we are doing something wrong!
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#19 Arie

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 01:03 AM

Psalms is what i love the most, but the Orthodox Churches don't chant any OT psalms just NT. I don't really know, i mean i'm sure your version of the OT must be different than ours, or more full? I haven't searched it. But for some reason it makes me want to be distant i can't really understand why i don't accept it. Maybe the way i grew in? Maybe our translations? Our culture? Maybe i got it wrong from the beginning? I dunno. But i know one thing, i love these kind of conversations so much :P


I also love the psalms!! I hebrew they are called tehillim, which I also just thing is a beautiful sounding name. I have no clue if they are different or not, but I can only assume they are. English translations of the psalms suck beyond words. So if you do ever look them up and don't understand something let me know. I studied them extensively because I love them so much!
I am not sure how I feel about our old Testement being different. I mean it bothers me because christain think our whole Torah is just the five books of Moses, but there is so much more. So I can totally understand how a christain can be bothered by our Torah or think its bad ect. Because we have so much more then just the five books of Moses. So there is love and equality ect. It's kind of misleading in a way.
I guess it doesn't really matter so much your reason for not excepting it. What matters more is that you feel something. Like, your not just saying oh I don't except that. You feeling something strange about the old Testement. Which to me is more understandable, sort of the feeling from G-D that you just can't put into words. I can understand that much easier then a list of reasons why. I think it for sure has to do with your culture and how you were brought up. That's the beauty of culture. I love these conversations too. I have always loved talking about religion. Especially with people who are religious. Because them there is mutual respect. With that respect no one puts the other down. We just have lovely conversations. I just wish I could sit down with you. You with your bible, me with mine and like compare and contrast hahaha.

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#20 Karen

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 01:10 AM

Oh and, Dina, Arie, anyone who wishes to discuss the different types of religious books/differences between them please go here!

http://forum.emma-wa...eligious-books/

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