Jump to content


Photo

KONY 2012


  • Please log in to reply
60 replies to this topic

#21 Will

Will

    Advanced Member

  • Forum Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,130 posts

Posted 09 March 2012 - 03:04 PM

Clearly you didn't read my whole post. I was discussing troops or govt. aid. The point of sharing the videos is to raise awareness. No one thinks they are physically helping the situation by clicking a button. But, that's irrelevant since it wasn't what I was talking about.

Sorry, I read your whole post, but I took that portion out of context to make other questions which are still in topic, since you said "I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want to help", and anyone is, well, anyone.

#22 The Midnight Q

The Midnight Q

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,444 posts
  • Mood::giggidy
  • LocationQuahog, RI

Posted 09 March 2012 - 04:25 PM

I don't think troops will be in the same danger in this case. The army ther fighting against is made up of kids. It's not an organized military. They are working with the Ugandan army. I don't think the same threat exists as in the examples Jeremy brought up.


"A bullet from a fourteen year old is just as effective as a bullet from a forty year old. Often more effective."

Children fighting is the worst of all. One they sometimes have a feeling of invincibility and two the adult soldiers they may be fighting will hesitate to pull that trigger thus getting shot themselves.

I will also add another question: How would you feel if this was you and everyone turned away? If you didn't live your nice lifestyle. If you suffered everyday, but no one came to help?


I've lived in a third world country before, I've lived in a place where I always had to be cautious when walking in the streets, I've lived where hearing gunfire at night is not uncommon. I have a taste of what that is.

My best friends are currently deployed to the horn of Africa on a humanitarian mission (combat capable). They're risking their lives for the exact purposes you want to achieve; they're just on the other side of the war-torn continent.

I'm not naive, of course there are people that want to help. It's that they're not committed to. Wanting something and doing something are totally different things.

I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want to help. I don't understand why people just turn the faces the other way and think that's okay. I guess it's because all my grandparents survived the holocaust. Ever country closed their borders at first during that. No one would help. I guess I have more experience with this subject. Sometimes you need to sacrifice a little in order to save a future. If Kony isn't stopped 30,000 will turn not more and more. These kids deserve a future.


Again I'm going to refer a quote I said earlier in this thread.

"The gates of Auschwitz were not opened with peace talks. Holland was not liberated by peacekeepers and fascism was not defeated with a deft pen."
Are you willing to have your own countrymen come back in body bags only to save people in a foreign land that probably will never return the favour? Are you willing to allow your own young boys and girls die at all? Are you willing to allow your own country's mothers weep over their children fighting a war that many won't understand?

What I'm asking is will you still help these children if it means losing children of your own?

Edited by sirbenedictvs, 09 March 2012 - 04:30 PM.

Posted Image
~Thanks Jade~

#23 The Midnight Q

The Midnight Q

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,444 posts
  • Mood::giggidy
  • LocationQuahog, RI

Posted 09 March 2012 - 04:49 PM

Sorry to double post but I'd like to reiterate a point mentioned in this thread before.

The whole world knows that this has been going on for decades. There were even Hollywood films about this subject and yet little was done then. And for some reason everyone wants to help all of a sudden? If anybody wanted to help, it should've been 30 years ago.
Posted Image
~Thanks Jade~

#24 Arie

Arie

    Devoted Member

  • Earth
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,231 posts

Posted 09 March 2012 - 04:52 PM

"A bullet from a fourteen year old is just as effective as a bullet from a forty year old. Often more effective."

Children fighting is the worst of all. One they sometimes have a feeling of invincibility and two the adult soldiers they may be fighting will hesitate to pull that trigger thus getting shot themselves.



I've lived in a third world country before, I've lived in a place where I always had to be cautious when walking in the streets, I've lived where hearing gunfire at night is not uncommon. I have a taste of what that is.

My best friends are currently deployed to the horn of Africa on a humanitarian mission (combat capable). They're risking their lives for the exact purposes you want to achieve; they're just on the other side of the war-torn continent.

I'm not naive, of course there are people that want to help. It's that they're not committed to. Wanting something and doing something are totally different things.



Again I'm going to refer a quote I said earlier in this thread.

"The gates of Auschwitz were not opened with peace talks. Holland was not liberated by peacekeepers and fascism was not defeated with a deft pen."
Are you willing to have your own countrymen come back in body bags only to save people in a foreign land that probably will never return the favour? Are you willing to allow your own young boys and girls die at all? Are you willing to allow your own country's mothers weep over their children fighting a war that many won't understand?

What I'm asking is will you still help these children if it means losing children of your own?


It wouldn't get that bad in this situation. There are always going to be casualties of course. But we are not fighting an advanced army. There wouldn't be these astronimcal numbers. I think that order to have a better future sometimes sacrifice is needed. I will again go back to your quote. So do you think that the US was wrong to enter WW2 because by your logic it would seem that way. There were tons of casualties too. So should every country have stayed out of it? Should they have just let Hitler continue killing and killing?! If the answer is yes, then I feel bad for you. Of course I hate the idea that anyone would be killed. But I understand that sometimes it is necessary for the future. I don't think that many soldiers would be killed in the Kony situation. Right now soldiers are there helping with the cause. I don't think we should just put this on a shelf or turn away. 30,000 kids is a huge number. It's only going to grow if no one does anything. I want those kids to have the same future that I hope for my own kids.

And do you think I don't know what it's like for people to die in war? Most of my friends are in the army in Israel currently. I know many people who have taught and died in the wars over there. I know exactly what it's like. But those soldiers understand it is necessary in order to have a future. I know what its like so don't you talk down to me.

I just think that turning your face away from anyone in need is wrong. No matter what, it's wrong. It was wrong in ever situation were it did happen. It was wrong in Halocaust and it is wrong now. If it weren't for the US intervening in WW2 then I wouldn't even be here today! Is that the kind of thing you want? To prevent futures?

Sorry to double post but I'd like to reiterate a point mentioned in this thread before.

The whole world knows that this has been going on for decades. There were even Hollywood films about this subject and yet little was done then. And for some reason everyone wants to help all of a sudden? If anybody wanted to help, it should've been 30 years ago.


Actually that's not true. Most people have said they never even heard of this! Look at the first page on this thread even at the people who wrote they had no idea. That's why they are raising awareness, because the everyday person was unaware.

My AMAZING sig is courtesy of the lovely BoMa and Dax
thanksarie.jpg
Best Member Girl Most Likely to Shop Even if the Word Was Ending Fashionista of the Forum
Twin- Ardi, Grandpa- Jon, Parents- Tara and Chris, Godfather- Dax, Daughter- Sarah, Nephew- Widu, Sisters- Catherine and Ellen, BFF- Noura, Roommate- Kim, Potato Chip- BoMa, Pea- Kimmie
totes BFFs w/ Joe 4eva


Lindy's Gift

Ellen's Gift

Boma's Gift


#25 The Midnight Q

The Midnight Q

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,444 posts
  • Mood::giggidy
  • LocationQuahog, RI

Posted 09 March 2012 - 05:05 PM

It wouldn't get that bad in this situation. There are always going to be casualties of course. But we are not fighting an advanced army. There wouldn't be these astronimcal numbers. I think that order to have a better future sometimes sacrifice is needed. I will again go back to your quote. So do you think that the US was wrong to enter WW2 because by your logic it would seem that way. There were tons of casualties too. So should every country have stayed out of it? Should they have just let Hitler continue killing and killing?! If the answer is yes, then I feel bad for you. Of course I hate the idea that anyone would be killed. But I understand that sometimes it is necessary for the future. I don't think that many soldiers would be killed in the Kony situation. Right now soldiers are there helping with the cause. I don't think we should just put this on a shelf or turn away. 30,000 kids is a huge number. It's only going to grow if no one does anything. I want those kids to have the same future that I hope for my own kids.


In order to help save the hungry people of Somalia, the United States sent 20,000 US Marines in 1992 and in 1993 had a few hundred of their best special operations troops in country. 300,000+ were died in the years prior, the responsibility was that of a warlord taking the UN food shipments to the country. It only took 19 US soldiers to die one day for President Clinton to pull out completely.

I just think that turning your face away from anyone in need is wrong. No matter what, it's wrong. It was wrong in ever situation were it did happen. It was wrong in Halocaust and it is wrong now. If it weren't for the US intervening in WW2 then I wouldn't even be here today! Is that the kind of thing you want? To prevent futures?


And I agree with you completely! I just want you to see this problem from the point of view of government leaders. Some things are just easier said than done. Popular support might die off in only a few months time. With the current state of world economy and politics, there are a lot of factors involved.


Actually that's not true. Most people have said they never even heard of this! Look at the first page on this thread even at the people who wrote they had no idea. That's why they are raising awareness, because the everyday person was unaware.


Define "most people". With the amount of books, movies, documentaries, TV shows, etc. on this subject over the years. It only took one 30 minute YouTube video for everyone to know? If that's the case then 'most' people are sheltered from the real world. The Facebook generation is one which may provide popular support but probably not loyal support.
Posted Image
~Thanks Jade~

#26 Arie

Arie

    Devoted Member

  • Earth
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,231 posts

Posted 09 March 2012 - 05:17 PM

I understand what you are saying. But I honestly don't think the situation is the same. I don't think it would get that bad. They aren't even interested in fighting. All they want to do is find the guy and arrest him. There are 100 american soldiers there now just helping and advising the ugandan army. That's all. No one is suggesting to deploy thousands of troops. Just to keep those same soldiers their as advisers. People are worried that if there is no public interest than they will no longer provide those advisers. That's the point of the awareness. The ugandan army is doing the fighting. They just need some advise, I don't see a problem with that. I am sure the us army has better tactics to show them.

That is exactly what I mean by people and you know its true. No one cares unless its on youtube or facebook. Its terribly depressing, but its the truth. No one can deny that. I often think the only way for most people to know what goes on in the world is through a ridiculous youtube video. Its sad what the world has come too. I think that really is the majority today.
To be clear I think that's a bad thing and I agree that it won't help much if at all. Just eanted to make that clear. I am not a total idiot haha

My AMAZING sig is courtesy of the lovely BoMa and Dax
thanksarie.jpg
Best Member Girl Most Likely to Shop Even if the Word Was Ending Fashionista of the Forum
Twin- Ardi, Grandpa- Jon, Parents- Tara and Chris, Godfather- Dax, Daughter- Sarah, Nephew- Widu, Sisters- Catherine and Ellen, BFF- Noura, Roommate- Kim, Potato Chip- BoMa, Pea- Kimmie
totes BFFs w/ Joe 4eva


Lindy's Gift

Ellen's Gift

Boma's Gift


#27 The Midnight Q

The Midnight Q

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,444 posts
  • Mood::giggidy
  • LocationQuahog, RI

Posted 09 March 2012 - 05:23 PM

I take it we can agree on that then. But I'm always going to be skeptical to a certain extent.
Posted Image
~Thanks Jade~

#28 Matthewsont

Matthewsont

    Member

  • Earth
  • PipPipPip
  • 177 posts
  • LocationS. E. England

Posted 09 March 2012 - 05:39 PM

I think I'll come in here with a game breaker and say that the entire video was made with footage filmed BEFORE 2006. In 2006 Kony and the LRA signed a peace agreement with the Ugandan government. The LRA is now roughly 250 strong and is not fighting anymore except in possibly very small areas. This means that Kony is NOT LONGER ABDUCTING CHILDREN. While he may HAVE abducted 30,000, the child soldiers atleast have disbanded. Moreover, the Invisible Children charity had it's finance books audited in October 2011. Only 30% was spent on helping the children while $800,000 was spent on making films and $400,000 was spent on office space.

My point is that this entire affair has obviously been blown entirely out of proportion. People have been blinded by a moral sense equal in strength to religious fervor. Very few people ahve actually thought beyond "oh look! He hurts Children! He's bad! Let's stop him!". It's no better than 8 year olds in the playground playing cops and robbers. There is a world outside our own morality. It's called politics.

#29 The Midnight Q

The Midnight Q

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,444 posts
  • Mood::giggidy
  • LocationQuahog, RI

Posted 09 March 2012 - 05:52 PM

I think I'll come in here with a game breaker and say that the entire video was made with footage filmed BEFORE 2006. In 2006 Kony and the LRA signed a peace agreement with the Ugandan government. The LRA is now roughly 250 strong and is not fighting anymore except in possibly very small areas. This means that Kony is NOT LONGER ABDUCTING CHILDREN. While he may HAVE abducted 30,000, the child soldiers atleast have disbanded. Moreover, the Invisible Children charity had it's finance books audited in October 2011. Only 30% was spent on helping the children while $800,000 was spent on making films and $400,000 was spent on office space.


Definitely a game breaker. I guess what people know about now is dated information. It still doesn't mean that he shouldn't be brought to Justice. But this definitely worth note.

My point is that this entire affair has obviously been blown entirely out of proportion. People have been blinded by a moral sense equal in strength to religious fervor. Very few people ahve actually thought beyond "oh look! He hurts Children! He's bad! Let's stop him!". It's no better than 8 year olds in the playground playing cops and robbers. There is a world outside our own morality. It's called politics.


You just took the words right out of my mouth.
Posted Image
~Thanks Jade~

#30 Jade

Jade

    Extreme Poster

  • Wind
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,065 posts
  • Mood::Content

Posted 09 March 2012 - 06:18 PM

Sorry to double post but I'd like to reiterate a point mentioned in this thread before.

The whole world knows that this has been going on for decades. There were even Hollywood films about this subject and yet little was done then. And for some reason everyone wants to help all of a sudden? If anybody wanted to help, it should've been 30 years ago.

30 years ago? I'm pretty sure the man stated 21 years ago? Everyone wants to help all of a sudden because they only just found out. The only reason why American government sent out troops was because they finally realised after 10 years how big the issue had got. I can't even believe they rejected to help them and said it simply weren't big enough. Fair enough Osama was a much bigger case then but I don't see what a few troops would have done to harm America. Spare me the rubbish about their safety, it's their job they chose to be there and get paid for it. I'm not saying sentence them but they're meant to help and they haven't until now. They could have more than likely catched Kony back then and this wouldn't be happening and it definitely wouldn't be so advanced. BUT it is so none of us can do much about it unless we plan on actually going out there.

As for buying the products they are selling for the campaign only a selective amount of the money actually goes out to helping them, everyone knows that.

I admit this Kony is a nasty piece of work. I too watched the video it came out and yes I did only learn of this then like two thirds of the rest of the population only heard about it then. Instead of bashing the circumstances though we should all be happy that it's an awareness worldwide now. I'd happily do my part to help them catch Kony even if it only donating that little money every month and putting posters up.

Not all of this was aimed at you by the way. xD Even though I quoted your post. The first sentence was but the rest of it was me stating my opinion as I have yet to post in here.

#31 130671

130671

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,064 posts
  • Mood:::/
  • LocationBetween a rock and a hard place ?

Posted 09 March 2012 - 06:25 PM

If there was some way to verify his DNA, maybe offering a bounty of...like...2-5 million $ for his head might work? Wouldn't there be some ppl in Africa who would like to collect?

#32 Matthewsont

Matthewsont

    Member

  • Earth
  • PipPipPip
  • 177 posts
  • LocationS. E. England

Posted 09 March 2012 - 07:07 PM

He's not even in Sudan anymore :P He's currently believed to be living in the Congo, fundamentally PROVING that Invisible Children are trying to mislead people into believing that he's still active.

#33 Arie

Arie

    Devoted Member

  • Earth
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,231 posts

Posted 09 March 2012 - 07:41 PM

Matthewsont, do you have sources for both of those posts? I am not doubting you. Its not even surprising. I just would like to see the sources and read up on that for myself. Can you post a link? Thanks!

My AMAZING sig is courtesy of the lovely BoMa and Dax
thanksarie.jpg
Best Member Girl Most Likely to Shop Even if the Word Was Ending Fashionista of the Forum
Twin- Ardi, Grandpa- Jon, Parents- Tara and Chris, Godfather- Dax, Daughter- Sarah, Nephew- Widu, Sisters- Catherine and Ellen, BFF- Noura, Roommate- Kim, Potato Chip- BoMa, Pea- Kimmie
totes BFFs w/ Joe 4eva


Lindy's Gift

Ellen's Gift

Boma's Gift


#34 Matthewsont

Matthewsont

    Member

  • Earth
  • PipPipPip
  • 177 posts
  • LocationS. E. England

Posted 09 March 2012 - 07:55 PM

Here:
http://www.guardian....story?fb=native
http://www.washingto...B31wR_blog.html
http://visiblechildren.tumblr.com/
http://www.foreignaf...e-lra?page=show
http://www.wrongingr...idea-ever.html/
http://chrisblattman...sible-children/
http://allafrica.com...1203080526.html

And then a few videos
http://www.theatlant...top-kony/49634/
http://www.worldstar...kYA0wFQbHvPf863

The Guardian one is probably a good place to start :)

#35 The Midnight Q

The Midnight Q

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,444 posts
  • Mood::giggidy
  • LocationQuahog, RI

Posted 09 March 2012 - 08:20 PM

30 years ago? I'm pretty sure the man stated 21 years ago? Everyone wants to help all of a sudden because they only just found out. The only reason why American government sent out troops was because they finally realised after 10 years how big the issue had got. I can't even believe they rejected to help them and said it simply weren't big enough. Fair enough Osama was a much bigger case then but I don't see what a few troops would have done to harm America. Spare me the rubbish about their safety, it's their job they chose to be there and get paid for it. I'm not saying sentence them but they're meant to help and they haven't until now. They could have more than likely catched Kony back then and this wouldn't be happening and it definitely wouldn't be so advanced. BUT it is so none of us can do much about it unless we plan on actually going out there.


Child soldiers aren't just in Uganda, they're everywhere from Sierra Leone to Ethiopia. Broaden the scale and it'll be more than just the 21 years. There's always been 'Western' aid in the region with or without American boots. There's always going to be some proxy group or contractor operating in various regions helping as far as fighting guerrilla and anti-government groups.

Again put yourselves in the shoes of the politicians, not the soldiers. Yes the soldiers understand what they're getting themselves into but its the politicians that get the flak if anything goes awry. Personally, with other factors in play as well, the situation wouldn't have gotten to this state if the UN hadn't cracked down on certain things preventing action actually being done.
Posted Image
~Thanks Jade~

#36 Arie

Arie

    Devoted Member

  • Earth
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,231 posts

Posted 09 March 2012 - 08:48 PM

Here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/reality-check-with-polly-curtis/2012/mar/08/kony-2012-what-s-the-story?fb=native
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/invisible-childrens-stop-kony-campaign/2012/03/07/gIQA7B31wR_blog.html
http://visiblechildren.tumblr.com/
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/136673/mareike-schomerus-tim-allen-and-koen-vlassenroot/obama-takes-on-the-lra?page=show
http://www.wrongingrights.com/2009/03/worst-idea-ever.html/
http://chrisblattman.com/2009/03/04/visible-children/
http://allafrica.com/stories/201203080526.html

And then a few videos
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2012/03/problem-stop-kony/49634/
http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhpkYA0wFQbHvPf863

The Guardian one is probably a good place to start :)


The Guardian one was great! Thanks. I am skimming through all of them now. A lot of interesting information here that definitely needs to be more publicized.

My AMAZING sig is courtesy of the lovely BoMa and Dax
thanksarie.jpg
Best Member Girl Most Likely to Shop Even if the Word Was Ending Fashionista of the Forum
Twin- Ardi, Grandpa- Jon, Parents- Tara and Chris, Godfather- Dax, Daughter- Sarah, Nephew- Widu, Sisters- Catherine and Ellen, BFF- Noura, Roommate- Kim, Potato Chip- BoMa, Pea- Kimmie
totes BFFs w/ Joe 4eva


Lindy's Gift

Ellen's Gift

Boma's Gift


#37 Matthewsont

Matthewsont

    Member

  • Earth
  • PipPipPip
  • 177 posts
  • LocationS. E. England

Posted 09 March 2012 - 08:52 PM

The Guardian one was great! Thanks. I am skimming through all of them now. A lot of interesting information here that definitely needs to be more publicized.


haha no problm. I hate it when people jsut get sucked into things without thinking :P

#38 I am Not Purple

I am Not Purple

    Advanced Member

  • Forum Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,589 posts
  • Mood::meh
  • LocationThe Pale Blue Dot

Posted 12 March 2012 - 07:29 PM

I knew something wasn't right about it. Just propaganda. I wish I could share those two videos I saw, but they aren't in English.

Yin-Yang_klein.gif I'm Yang, Dina is Yin

Aunt: Arie


#39 Arie

Arie

    Devoted Member

  • Earth
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,231 posts

Posted 12 March 2012 - 07:31 PM

I knew something wasn't right about it. Just propaganda. I wish I could share those two videos I saw, but they aren't in English.


Can you summarize what was in them?

My AMAZING sig is courtesy of the lovely BoMa and Dax
thanksarie.jpg
Best Member Girl Most Likely to Shop Even if the Word Was Ending Fashionista of the Forum
Twin- Ardi, Grandpa- Jon, Parents- Tara and Chris, Godfather- Dax, Daughter- Sarah, Nephew- Widu, Sisters- Catherine and Ellen, BFF- Noura, Roommate- Kim, Potato Chip- BoMa, Pea- Kimmie
totes BFFs w/ Joe 4eva


Lindy's Gift

Ellen's Gift

Boma's Gift


#40 Emmas Friend

Emmas Friend

    Devoted Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,174 posts
  • LocationEngland

Posted 13 March 2012 - 12:12 AM

This guy and his cronies have done a lot of evil things in the past, would like to see him and his associates brought to justice. Having said that, I dont think donating any money to this charity would do any good at all. The only way rebel organisations can be fought is by military and political methods. As for celebrities who have jumped on the bandwagon, its a typical knee jerk reaction, with the benefit of some free publicity.
They should stay well out of it, and let the politicians and the UN deal with it.

Africa is a huge continent, and there is always some confilicts going on in various countries, the rest of the world can't put everything to right. Its about time some of the better off African countries started helping out their neighbours. !

Catching one man will not solve all the problems !
E-sister - Madeline




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users