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Emma out in London - November 26th


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#41 Jonny Carinthia

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:33 PM

You said "Emma had always problems with that."

NO SHE DOES NOT BECAUSE IT'S NOT *HER* PROBLEM THAT SHE IS BEING SEXUALLY ASSAULTED WHEN SHE EXITS A DAMN CAR.


Yes, it is "her" problem. Because as long as it is not forbidden by law (and it seems, that it is until this day possible to take and print such pics without getting to court) it MIGHT be in the intrest of a celeb woman to learn how to get in and out a car without the danger to find such a pic in tomorrows newspaper. Do you really think, Kate & Co. would learn such things without need?

And don't be so aggressiv. You really have a problem to accept other peoples opinions.

Edited by Jonny Carinthia, 06 December 2012 - 02:34 PM.

"Benutze es!" = "Use it!"

„Dreams come true; without that possibility, nature would not incite us to have them.” John Updike


#42 Sacred_Path

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:34 PM

It has nothing to do with fame, it has to do with being female-identified in a world controlled by white cis-gendered males who have every bit of power in the world (not hating against all of you, since many are lovely, but there are those ones that ruin your stereotype for you ;) ).


Being a white hetero male I could take offense to that, but since the world is my oyster your spite doesn't hurt me in the slightest. Now watch me slowly spinning this globe while cackling sinisterly :king:

"Ok, well, the 'hot bod' is not a characteristic."


#43 ling

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:37 PM

Yes, it is "her" problem. Because as long as it is not forbidden by law (and it seems, that it is until this day possible to take and print such pics without getting to court) it MIGHT be in the intrest of a celeb woman to learn how to get in and out a car without the danger to find such a pic in tomorrows newspaper. Do you really think, Kate & Co. would learn such things without need?

And don't be so aggressiv. You really have a problem to accept other peoples opinions.


You are seriously justifying the paparazzi's right to sexually assault Emma? :unsure:

And damn right I'm going to be aggressive over a very real issue that 50% of the population faces. It's not an OPINION, because you have NO RIGHT to an opinion over people taking photos up women's skirts because IT'S NOT YOUR BODY.

Being a white hetero male I could take offense to that, but since the world is my oyster your spite doesn't hurt me in the slightest. Now watch me slowly spinning this globe while cackling sinisterly :king:


I love you so much. :kiss:

#44 Sacred_Path

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:38 PM

:lol:

"Ok, well, the 'hot bod' is not a characteristic."


#45 Jonny Carinthia

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:38 PM

You are seriously justifying the paparazzi's right to sexually assault Emma? :unsure:


Not I, the british law, I think.

And as long as the law does not protect the victim of such "pictorial assaults" it MIGHT be a good idea to me to be careful.

We I stayed with my friends in San Fransisco, we were told that it is not good for tourists to go to certain streets. So we avoided them, and we did not enter them with the idea: "it is not correct to get robbed and stabbed, but it will not happen, because the criminals knows that it is not right".

Edited by Jonny Carinthia, 06 December 2012 - 02:44 PM.

"Benutze es!" = "Use it!"

„Dreams come true; without that possibility, nature would not incite us to have them.” John Updike


#46 ling

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:48 PM

We I stayed with my friends in San Fransisco, we were told that it is not good for tourists to go to certain streets. So we avoided them, and we did not enter them with the idea: "it is not correct to get robbed and stabbed, but it will not happen, because the criminals knows that it is not right".


Okay, so apply this logic and imagine you are female (female-identified), and having to be afraid of being hurt or assaulted on ANY street you walk on. And then tell me that the paparazzi are part of her job, because "the law" (again, the law written by a majority of upper-class cis-gendered white men) says it's okay. :rolleyes:

#47 Sacred_Path

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:53 PM

In keeping with your analogy, it's more like saying "there are thugs out there who might jump you no matter where you go. So you can either go unarmed and hope for the best, or take martial arts lessons and carry a gun on you at all times." So far, Emma has gone with the more reasonable (relatable, natural) option I'd say.

"Ok, well, the 'hot bod' is not a characteristic."


#48 Jonny Carinthia

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:01 PM

Okay, so apply this logic and imagine you are female (female-identified), and having to be afraid of being hurt or assaulted on ANY street you walk on. And then tell me that the paparazzi are part of her job, because "the law" (again, the law written by a majority of upper-class cis-gendered white men) says it's okay. :rolleyes:


As far as I can see it, the british law make do difference between "normal" pictures and pictures of a indecent nature. And I do not think, that femals in London are more in danger to get hurted or assaulted then in other big cities (speaking for Europa). But still in our peaceful Vienna, capital of Austria, women know which streets should be avoided at certain times. I know, you say this is not correct, but it is so in many countries of the world. This is no excuse, just fact.

And the law: it seems to me - maybe one of our british members of this forum can tell us details - that there is no law at all against such indecent pictures. Because in Austria you can take "pap-shots", but a "upskirt-thing" would lead immediatly to criminal prosecution (not looking at the fact that no newspaper would print them). I know that the british law is different in questions of "personal rights", so maybe this is the problem?

Most politicians - men and women - are interested in a good relation to the press. This is the explanation why it is so difficult to change the law. They not even did it after the death of Diana. All possible was a "gentlemans agreement" between the editors in chief and the royal houshold to let the boys until they are 18.

"Benutze es!" = "Use it!"

„Dreams come true; without that possibility, nature would not incite us to have them.” John Updike


#49 ling

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:02 PM

I mean, if a doctor or teacher took photos of a patient or student that's illegal and would cause them to lose their job. But the paparazzi can do the same thing to a celebrity and they get to keep doing it forever? :unsure:

#50 Jonny Carinthia

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:06 PM

I mean, if a doctor or teacher took photos of a patient or student that's illegal and would cause them to lose their job. But the paparazzi can do the same thing to a celebrity and they get to keep doing it forever? :unsure:


As patient of student I must agree that my picture is taken (speaking for Austria). There is a special form to fill in. For politicians, artists, athlets ecc. the Austrian law knows the term "Person of public interest". If you regarded to be such person, the right "on your own picture" is different then to a "pedestrian on the street".

"Benutze es!" = "Use it!"

„Dreams come true; without that possibility, nature would not incite us to have them.” John Updike


#51 ling

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:10 PM

Yeah I wasn't saying "picture" like "picture" but of an invasive photo. If a doctor set up a camera in their room and took photos of their patients in states of undress, they'd go to jail. If a man went into a ladies' dressing room and took a photo under the door, again he'd be charged as a criminal.

But a man (or woman, although seems to be less common) can waltz up with a telephoto lens aimed directly up a celebrity woman's skirt and get away with it.

#52 Jonny Carinthia

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:13 PM

Yeah I wasn't saying "picture" like "picture" but of an invasive photo. If a doctor set up a camera in their room and took photos of their patients in states of undress, they'd go to jail. If a man went into a ladies' dressing room and took a photo under the door, again he'd be charged as a criminal.
But a man (or woman, although seems to be less common) can waltz up with a telephoto lens aimed directly up a celebrity woman's skirt and get away with it.


But, again. It seems to me that there is no law against such assaults in Great Britain. Or is it so difficult the get them to court?
Jo, can you tell us about the law in such cases?

Edited by Jonny Carinthia, 06 December 2012 - 03:13 PM.

"Benutze es!" = "Use it!"

„Dreams come true; without that possibility, nature would not incite us to have them.” John Updike


#53 Sacred_Path

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:14 PM

The idea of a 'crotch of public interest' is a bit disturbing, indeed.

"Ok, well, the 'hot bod' is not a characteristic."


#54 Jonny Carinthia

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:17 PM

The idea of a 'crotch of public interest' is a bit disturbing, indeed.


I agree, but such pictures are punishable under Austrian law. Not punishable are the pics from the beginning of this thread. Because Emma would be seen as "Person of public interest". But if she would live here in Austria, she would have agreements for years with the paps and no problems at all.

"Benutze es!" = "Use it!"

„Dreams come true; without that possibility, nature would not incite us to have them.” John Updike


#55 Jo.

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:20 PM

As patient of student I must agree that my picture is taken (speaking for Austria). There is a special form to fill in. For politicians, artists, athlets ecc. the Austrian law knows the term "Person of public interest". If you regarded to be such person, the right "on your own picture" is different then to a "pedestrian on the street".

Putting the Law aside.

Your opinion is just that Emma should smile at the paps instead of looking annoyed at them?

As Ling pointed out, the moment Emma turned 18, she was abused by the paps. She innocently got into a car with no intention of flashing her undergarments to the camera's (she was even with her Dad for goodness sake!). Had the repulsive, vile pap(s) that got ON THE FLOOR with a zoom lens to get a picture up her skirt been a human being with feelings - then we would never have had an upskirt shot anyway. It's not like she intentioanlly exposed herself.

After your privacy has been violated in a way like this, WHY would you want to SMILE at these scumbags and make them think that you enjoy having them take a picture?

Emma does not need to act "friendly" towards the paps, she is always very good to fans on the street - the people that matter - so as long as that's the case, then why does it bother you so much that she doesn't smile? You will find that NO OTHER female on this forum would smile. The only people that enjoy it are the relaity TV 'stars' that court this attention because it is what they are 'famous' for.

#56 ling

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:21 PM

I agree, but such pictures are punishable under Austrian law. Not punishable are the pics from the beginning of this thread. Because Emma would be seen as "Person of public interest". But if she would live here in Austria, she would have agreements for years with the paps and no problems at all.


So you agree that it's awful but you still justify that the paparazzi are part of her job and therefore have a right to violate her because there's no law? :unsure:

There are countries where it's legal to kill your daughter, should we all just stand around like "oh there's no law against it so I guess that's okay?" or do you think some anger toward the matter is warranted?

#57 Jonny Carinthia

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:38 PM

So you agree that it's awful but you still justify that the paparazzi are part of her job and therefore have a right to violate her because there's no law? :unsure:

There are countries where it's legal to kill your daughter, should we all just stand around like "oh there's no law against it so I guess that's okay?" or do you think some anger toward the matter is warranted?



The trouble is: if you have no real possibility to avoid things (speaking in general), you have to cope with them. I say the woman in the next flat drives me crazy because of her cooking with garlic, but as long as there is no law against garlic, I have to find ways to cope with that (close the window).

Paparazzi are photopgraphers, doing their jobs. Not judging in which way. In which way is a question of the newspapers, the editors and THE PUBLIC, buying newspapers with pictures in question. If nobody would buy these newspapers, the question would be solved very quickly. But as long as it is not clearly forbidden to take such pictures, it will happen. This has nothing to do with common sence or the right behaviour, because both things are killed by one word: MONEY.

It's a killer-argument to compare such pictures with the killing of daughters, but we all know that it happens. But then you can discuss abortion, too. And it is difficult to change such "traditions" (horrific for us, but maybe "normal" for the people, living them) from one day to another.

As Ling pointed out, the moment Emma turned 18, she was abused by the paps. She innocently got into a car with no intention of flashing her undergarments to the camera's (she was even with her Dad for goodness sake!). Had the repulsive, vile pap(s) that got ON THE FLOOR with a zoom lens to get a picture up her skirt been a human being with feelings - then we would never have had an upskirt shot anyway. It's not like she intentioanlly exposed herself.


Unfortunatly you did not answer my question, if there is actual a law against such pics. I think not, because otherwise the would not be made.
I think you want that the paps are saying: "Ok, we are bad people. It will not happen again." THIS will not happen. Because the are getting MONEY for it, and MONEY is the best argument to behave crazy.

And Emma: I think, she is a smart and intelligent woman. Did she really thought that it would not happen to her?

"Benutze es!" = "Use it!"

„Dreams come true; without that possibility, nature would not incite us to have them.” John Updike


#58 Jo.

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:43 PM

Unfortunatly you did not answer my question, if there is actual a law against such pics. I think not, because otherwise the would not be made.

Actually no, you did not answer mine. This conversation didn't start about what the law is, but you just commented that Emma should smile in pap shots. So I asked you if you really think she should smile and encourage the very same people that abused her when she was 18 by trying to take photos of her private parts?
It seems you always try and dance around the subject when anyone asks you if you think Emma DESERVES this treatment? (i.e: to have a photogropher lay on the the floor and put a camera lens up her skirt)?

And Emma: I think, she is a smart and intelligent woman. Did she really thought that it would not happen to her?

Wow. Just Wow.
<sarcasm> Yes, i'm sure everyday since she was 9 she has been thinking/waiting for the day a paparrazi get on the floor and take a picture up her skirt. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: </sarcasm>

#59 Jonny Carinthia

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:00 PM

Actually no, you did not answer mine. This conversation didn't start about what the law is, but you just commented that Emma should smile in pap shots. So I asked you if you really think she should smile and encourage the very same people that abused her when she was 18 by trying to take photos of her private parts?
It seems you always try and dance around the subject when anyone asks you if you think Emma DESERVES this treatment? (i.e: to have a photogropher lay on the the floor and put a camera lens up her skirt)?


Wow. Just Wow.
<sarcasm> Yes, i'm sure everyday since she was 9 she has been thinking/waiting for the day a paparrazi get on the floor and take a picture up her skirt. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: </sarcasm>



The question is not simply if somebody deserves a treatment, but how he/she copes with things, happening in life. You know my story, Jo, and do you really think I am under the impression that I deserved, what happend? But it happend, and I had to cope with it. I made my decisions, changed a lot of things and see the world now a little bit different.

Of course it is not right to get down in front of Emma or every other woman on the floor to get pics of panties, private parts...... But answer me, why DOES it happen? Why can a man go down on the pavement and make such pictures without any consequences? Why can a newspaper print such pics without consequences? This are the questions!

No, she did not think about it from the age of nine. But you cannot tell me, that her parents did not thought about it. Or her management. Or her publicist. Such behaviour of the press is "normal standard" in Great Britian, as far as I can see it from here, so you will tell me that nobody in her team ever thought about it what would happen if this pretty girl becomes 18? Whow, if this is really so, I have overestimated her parents and her team a lot.....

"Benutze es!" = "Use it!"

„Dreams come true; without that possibility, nature would not incite us to have them.” John Updike


#60 ling

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:54 PM

I think, again, you put a lot of pressure on her team to control something that should not happen to any female and doesn't just happen to Emma. And you seem to excuse the perpetrators a lot instead of saying "this is NOT okay and she SHOULD take a stand against it."

Again, asking Emma to smile for people who assaulted her (and yes taking photos of someone's private areas without their permission is actual, legitimate sexual assault) is just as bad as asking a girl who was touched inappropriately against her will to apologize for wearing a short skirt. It's wrong.

Edited by ling, 06 December 2012 - 05:54 PM.





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