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Connecticut School Shooting


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#21 ling

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:37 AM

Well, Americans may not realize it, but Canadians know how everything that happens to the U.S. happens to us too. For the most part we share your economy, our soliders fight alongside your soldiers, your politics are our politics. So, it hurts us just as badly to see America hurt. One of the little girls, Ana Marquez-Greene, had lived in Winnipeg (Manitoba, Canada) until just recently. Her father taught a friend of mine at the University of Manitoba. So, yes, when it's an issue with the two countries it is undeniably an issue of what WE have to do to keep all of us safe.

#22 Arie

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 04:09 AM

I am pretty sure Americans are well aware of this fact actually. I am not exactly American although I was born here and have been living here for the last few years. I may not be the best judge, but Americans are not unaware as you make them seem. I also am not just referring to Canada and America working together. I meant it on a larger scale. That it would be nicer for all the countries to think more in terms of a "we". That's all. It was just a simple comment as to how it would be nicer if there were more of a "we" in this world and less of an "I".

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#23 Tom™

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 09:37 AM

Sorry to bring up more gun related talk

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Edited by Tom™, 19 December 2012 - 09:43 AM.

 
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#24 ling

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:49 PM

@Arie: Sorry, when I said "Americans may not realize it" I meant it more like... I don't know what Americans do/do not realize having not spent more than a day in America for 12 years.

Still, at the end of the day there's only so much "we" that CAN go into it. We (as in, the rest of the world) can offer condolences and support, and we can show you very blatant examples of what's worked for us in terms of attempting to solve violent problems, but at the end of the day we have no say in American government. It is very much up to the citizens of the U.S. to contact their representatives and let them know how they feel on the matter. I can preach about gun control and public health care all day but it won't make a bit of difference over there. :P

#25 Arie

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 04:07 PM

True, andi think people are doing something over here. I just think its nice that people care and want to help.

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#26 ling

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 04:47 PM

Oh yeah, I was shocked by the NRA's statement that they are willing to be involved in discussions. Whether or not they follow through will be seen, but I think to acknowledge it is a big step.

#27 Arie

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 05:05 PM

Have you guys seen this yet? http://www.buzzfeed....cts-of-kindness

It's getting posted everywhere but it's very sweet!

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#28 The Midnight Q

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:17 PM

Chris, Armed personnel is schools is a terrible idea. I pray to G-D it will never come to that.



...so you're saying that it's a bad idea for an assigned police liaison to be in schools? Here (in Texas), there is at least one police officer on duty at every public school during school hours not just for protection but for mediating conflicts, investigate crimes (such as student drug possession/theft/etc), provide assistance during fire/tornado drills, direct traffic, etc. The fact of the matter is, the police officer is an armed individual. Armed and qualified to perform his/her duties as a peace officer in the event of any emergency situations. Ever since Columbine, the schools here in Texas started putting more officers in the schools. (The Newtown school had no police officer on campus.)

Albeit, the liaison is paid for by the school district. If the district decides to cut funding and allocate them to lets say... sports, they lose that officer on duty. (I'm still kind-of ticked off about a local school district spending I believe $60 million just for a freaking football stadium they don't even need; that money could've gone to A. building another campus to offset the school's 4,000 student population, B. better fund music and fine arts departments, C. hire more teachers)


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Edited by The Midnight Q, 19 December 2012 - 10:23 PM.

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#29 Arie

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:26 PM

I have never attended a school where that was needed so I guess that it why I am uncomfortable with the idea. I just hate the idea that schools need someone who is armed. It's sad that is needed at a school. I wish it weren't.

Also, having one armed police man on a school campus will not necessarily prevent a shooting. It may help with some security but I don't think it is a sure thing.

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#30 trixie

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:38 AM

My thoughts goes out for the families of the victims. So sad.
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#31 ShipOfFools

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:05 PM

I really don't understand many things here.

One, I don't understand how a clearly mentally ill person was allowed access to guns? That's the main problem here. His mother allowed him access to weapons.

Another thing is, I understand he was upset at possibly being institutionalized. That explains why he shot the mother. But why go after the kids? That's what's so horrifying and heartbreaking. It's horrifying enough that he killed his mother, but the 20 children...:(

And another thing...again, someone should have seen the signs. I repeat this after every school shooting, with a mentally ill person, but if someone is really, really sick, one other person knows about it. That person is at fault when the person goes mental.

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#32 Dax

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:53 PM

I really don't understand many things here.

One, I don't understand how a clearly mentally ill person was allowed access to guns? That's the main problem here. His mother allowed him access to weapons.

Another thing is, I understand he was upset at possibly being institutionalized. That explains why he shot the mother. But why go after the kids? That's what's so horrifying and heartbreaking. It's horrifying enough that he killed his mother, but the 20 children...:(

And another thing...again, someone should have seen the signs. I repeat this after every school shooting, with a mentally ill person, but if someone is really, really sick, one other person knows about it. That person is at fault when the person goes mental.

To be fair the mother did see the signs. She was taking the steps to institutionalize him. You have to prove the adult is incapable of taking care of himself before you can commit him, which is what she was doing. It's unfortunate but that seems to be the primary reason he killed her. As for the school shooting it's been suggested that the shooter felt his mother cared more about the children than about him. It's hard to find a reason in pure madness. At the end of the day the guy was unstable, his mother was trying to get him help, but it wasn't soon enough.

#33 ling

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 09:15 PM

Yeah, it's SO hard to get care for an adult who is unwilling. And in a system in which it is already difficult to get care, I'm sure the mother had quite a task trying to get any help at all.

#34 Sacred_Path

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 09:41 PM

Yeah, it's SO hard to get care for an adult who is unwilling.


It's a mixed affair.

Here for example everyone who attempts suicide is routinely put into a closed ward. Which is certainly positive in some cases, but OTOH it's a bit of an odd interpretation of a person's free will.

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#35 130671

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 10:06 PM

The USA and gun control are two things that just don't mix well to create "the same situation" everywhere. Maybe the US needs a sort of segregation where there are certain areas (or towns/cities/states) which do not allow private weapon ownership and transport, and areas where the laws remain as they are - so over time ppl who feel a certain way about this will naturally gravitate to their preferred area.
Which of course will still not protect you from someone coming from "outside" to commit such a crime on the "inside" - but total security is an illusion anyway.
I think Japan may have some of the most repressive laws about weapons/violence ever coupled with intense social pressure to conform to "the norm" of the "law-abiding citizen"....but if that actually creates the kind of environment and people we would like to see is highly questionable.

#36 ling

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 10:14 PM

It's a mixed affair.

Here for example everyone who attempts suicide is routinely put into a closed ward. Which is certainly positive in some cases, but OTOH it's a bit of an odd interpretation of a person's free will.


Here they can hold you for 72 hours I think, but if you want to check yourself out after that they can't really do anything.

#37 The Midnight Q

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 12:24 AM

I really don't understand many things here.

One, I don't understand how a clearly mentally ill person was allowed access to guns? That's the main problem here. His mother allowed him access to weapons.


He wanted to buy a firearm from Dick's Sporting Goods but was denied because of the background check. The current laws in this case blocked him from obtaining one. He then proceeded to go to his mother's house, murder her and then steal her firearms. I don't call that "access", that's just murder and theft of another person's property. He was intent for ill will, no law was gonna stop him from committing such acts.

Any person intent to do harm will do it no matter what laws are in place or what tools are available. China is a country which has very strict gun laws and it is extremely difficult to obtain one as a civilian. Except a lot of news in China always surface of some crazed individuals wielding knives and axes; maiming and killing innocents. In the Philippines I see a lot of both gun and blade violence, even personally. The Philippines have very strict gun laws as well. The only ways for you to get one are 1) You have lots and lots of money and someone was able to obtain a permit, 2) You have an old WWII era or earlier collectible firearm, or 3) You either stole it from other people or bought one off the black market (the rebel/terrorist/criminal/pirate groups in the country usually use this option)


I think Japan may have some of the most repressive laws about weapons/violence ever coupled with intense social pressure to conform to "the norm" of the "law-abiding citizen"....but if that actually creates the kind of environment and people we would like to see is highly questionable.


And then the sport of airsoft was invented out of Japan because of the lack of real firearms.

Edited by The Midnight Q, 21 December 2012 - 12:29 AM.

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#38 cbmac12

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 03:01 AM

No matter how anyone tries to swing this, mentally ill or not, the man was a disgusting, despicable human being. I teach third grade and to see my own students and their kindergarten buddies making gingerbread men the other day with each other made me tear up knowing those young lives in Connecticut were taken so violently while my angels were working. I have to say going back to work this week has been rather surreal and a bit nerve wrecking. We walked into our building Monday morning thinking about the school in Connecticut. We now have police stationed at our school-patroling the grounds-plain clothes.
As for gun control, our country sucks at it...I do not care if people want to own handguns that is their right to protect themselves if for that reason...but assault weapons-FREAKIN BAN THEM ALREADY-WHO the he#@ needs them!!!!! Its just so beyond despicable and horrific what happened to the kids and their teachers. All they did was get up, go to school. Those teachers were planned for the day, going over the schedule and the day. They just wanted to teach their angels.

My boss told us her uncle lives there and said the entire conmunity just is devastated and finding it very hard to move past this-how do you move past this???? :'(

By the way I teach aspergers kids-mainstreamed...they are usually very sweet and docile-have some social issues but are rather intelligent, kind, and want to be with others even though socially they are awkward-I have 4 students with aspergers...so whatever the media is saying about the autistic spectrum, please do not listen to them.
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#39 soulsister

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 03:59 AM

I heard that guy in CT was on several psychotropic drugs--mix that with guns, and
you've got a real recipe for disaster!! :angry: Big pharma will never admit that
their drugs are the problem here--all you need is to listen to the disclaimers
on the drug ads--they're telling people these prescription drugs are going to kill
you or others. This is really sick!!

It seems its every year, there's several of these shootings--remember the Batman premiere?? Columbine???

Suicidality and Antidepressant Drugs
Antidepressants increased the risk of suicidal thinking and behavior in children, teens, and young adults. Depression and certain other psychiatric disorders are themselves associated with increases in the risk of suicide. Patients of all ages who are started on antidepressant therapy or when the dose is changed should be monitored appropriately and observed closely for clinical worsening, suicidality, or unusual changes in behavior such as becoming agitated, irritable, hostile, aggressive, impulsive or restless.


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#40 ling

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 04:14 AM

By the way I teach aspergers kids-mainstreamed...they are usually very sweet and docile-have some social issues but are rather intelligent, kind, and want to be with others even though socially they are awkward-I have 4 students with aspergers...so whatever the media is saying about the autistic spectrum, please do not listen to them.


I've been a TA a few times, with elementary school-aged kids, many with Asperger's or behavioral issues, and same deal. They may not pick up on social cues, but they're sweet, super intelligent children. And the spectrum is just that– so varied that almost nobody placed on it is exactly the same as anyone else. In all my years working with kids, I only knew one who I would categorize as violent (tried to lunge at me with some scissors, eep). So, yes, I find the link to the autism spectrum to be awful because there's already enough stigma attached to it.




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