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Oh yeah, I was shocked by the NRA's statement that they are willing to be involved in discussions. Whether or not they follow through will be seen, but I think to acknowledge it is a big step.

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Chris, Armed personnel is schools is a terrible idea. I pray to G-D it will never come to that.

 

 

...so you're saying that it's a bad idea for an assigned police liaison to be in schools? Here (in Texas), there is at least one police officer on duty at every public school during school hours not just for protection but for mediating conflicts, investigate crimes (such as student drug possession/theft/etc), provide assistance during fire/tornado drills, direct traffic, etc. The fact of the matter is, the police officer is an armed individual. Armed and qualified to perform his/her duties as a peace officer in the event of any emergency situations. Ever since Columbine, the schools here in Texas started putting more officers in the schools. (The Newtown school had no police officer on campus.)

 

Albeit, the liaison is paid for by the school district. If the district decides to cut funding and allocate them to lets say... sports, they lose that officer on duty. (I'm still kind-of ticked off about a local school district spending I believe $60 million just for a freaking football stadium they don't even need; that money could've gone to A. building another campus to offset the school's 4,000 student population, B. better fund music and fine arts departments, C. hire more teachers)

 

 

----

 

Anyone ever been to Switzerland?

 

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1566715.stm

 

They have significantly more guns per capita than the US. Education, money, and society (or lack of) is the root of the evil, guns are only the tools.

 

Edited by The Midnight Q
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I have never attended a school where that was needed so I guess that it why I am uncomfortable with the idea. I just hate the idea that schools need someone who is armed. It's sad that is needed at a school. I wish it weren't.

 

Also, having one armed police man on a school campus will not necessarily prevent a shooting. It may help with some security but I don't think it is a sure thing.

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I really don't understand many things here.

 

One, I don't understand how a clearly mentally ill person was allowed access to guns? That's the main problem here. His mother allowed him access to weapons.

 

Another thing is, I understand he was upset at possibly being institutionalized. That explains why he shot the mother. But why go after the kids? That's what's so horrifying and heartbreaking. It's horrifying enough that he killed his mother, but the 20 children...:(

 

And another thing...again, someone should have seen the signs. I repeat this after every school shooting, with a mentally ill person, but if someone is really, really sick, one other person knows about it. That person is at fault when the person goes mental.

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I really don't understand many things here.

 

One, I don't understand how a clearly mentally ill person was allowed access to guns? That's the main problem here. His mother allowed him access to weapons.

 

Another thing is, I understand he was upset at possibly being institutionalized. That explains why he shot the mother. But why go after the kids? That's what's so horrifying and heartbreaking. It's horrifying enough that he killed his mother, but the 20 children...:(

 

And another thing...again, someone should have seen the signs. I repeat this after every school shooting, with a mentally ill person, but if someone is really, really sick, one other person knows about it. That person is at fault when the person goes mental.

To be fair the mother did see the signs. She was taking the steps to institutionalize him. You have to prove the adult is incapable of taking care of himself before you can commit him, which is what she was doing. It's unfortunate but that seems to be the primary reason he killed her. As for the school shooting it's been suggested that the shooter felt his mother cared more about the children than about him. It's hard to find a reason in pure madness. At the end of the day the guy was unstable, his mother was trying to get him help, but it wasn't soon enough.

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Yeah, it's SO hard to get care for an adult who is unwilling. And in a system in which it is already difficult to get care, I'm sure the mother had quite a task trying to get any help at all.

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Yeah, it's SO hard to get care for an adult who is unwilling.

 

It's a mixed affair.

 

Here for example everyone who attempts suicide is routinely put into a closed ward. Which is certainly positive in some cases, but OTOH it's a bit of an odd interpretation of a person's free will.

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The USA and gun control are two things that just don't mix well to create "the same situation" everywhere. Maybe the US needs a sort of segregation where there are certain areas (or towns/cities/states) which do not allow private weapon ownership and transport, and areas where the laws remain as they are - so over time ppl who feel a certain way about this will naturally gravitate to their preferred area.

Which of course will still not protect you from someone coming from "outside" to commit such a crime on the "inside" - but total security is an illusion anyway.

I think Japan may have some of the most repressive laws about weapons/violence ever coupled with intense social pressure to conform to "the norm" of the "law-abiding citizen"....but if that actually creates the kind of environment and people we would like to see is highly questionable.

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It's a mixed affair.

 

Here for example everyone who attempts suicide is routinely put into a closed ward. Which is certainly positive in some cases, but OTOH it's a bit of an odd interpretation of a person's free will.

 

Here they can hold you for 72 hours I think, but if you want to check yourself out after that they can't really do anything.

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I really don't understand many things here.

 

One, I don't understand how a clearly mentally ill person was allowed access to guns? That's the main problem here. His mother allowed him access to weapons.

 

He wanted to buy a firearm from Dick's Sporting Goods but was denied because of the background check. The current laws in this case blocked him from obtaining one. He then proceeded to go to his mother's house, murder her and then steal her firearms. I don't call that "access", that's just murder and theft of another person's property. He was intent for ill will, no law was gonna stop him from committing such acts.

 

Any person intent to do harm will do it no matter what laws are in place or what tools are available. China is a country which has very strict gun laws and it is extremely difficult to obtain one as a civilian. Except a lot of news in China always surface of some crazed individuals wielding knives and axes; maiming and killing innocents. In the Philippines I see a lot of both gun and blade violence, even personally. The Philippines have very strict gun laws as well. The only ways for you to get one are 1) You have lots and lots of money and someone was able to obtain a permit, 2) You have an old WWII era or earlier collectible firearm, or 3) You either stole it from other people or bought one off the black market (the rebel/terrorist/criminal/pirate groups in the country usually use this option)

 

 

I think Japan may have some of the most repressive laws about weapons/violence ever coupled with intense social pressure to conform to "the norm" of the "law-abiding citizen"....but if that actually creates the kind of environment and people we would like to see is highly questionable.

 

And then the sport of airsoft was invented out of Japan because of the lack of real firearms.

Edited by The Midnight Q
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No matter how anyone tries to swing this, mentally ill or not, the man was a disgusting, despicable human being. I teach third grade and to see my own students and their kindergarten buddies making gingerbread men the other day with each other made me tear up knowing those young lives in Connecticut were taken so violently while my angels were working. I have to say going back to work this week has been rather surreal and a bit nerve wrecking. We walked into our building Monday morning thinking about the school in Connecticut. We now have police stationed at our school-patroling the grounds-plain clothes.

As for gun control, our country sucks at it...I do not care if people want to own handguns that is their right to protect themselves if for that reason...but assault weapons-FREAKIN BAN THEM ALREADY-WHO the he#@ needs them!!!!! Its just so beyond despicable and horrific what happened to the kids and their teachers. All they did was get up, go to school. Those teachers were planned for the day, going over the schedule and the day. They just wanted to teach their angels.

 

My boss told us her uncle lives there and said the entire conmunity just is devastated and finding it very hard to move past this-how do you move past this???? :'(

 

By the way I teach aspergers kids-mainstreamed...they are usually very sweet and docile-have some social issues but are rather intelligent, kind, and want to be with others even though socially they are awkward-I have 4 students with aspergers...so whatever the media is saying about the autistic spectrum, please do not listen to them.

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I heard that guy in CT was on several psychotropic drugs--mix that with guns, and

you've got a real recipe for disaster!! :angry: Big pharma will never admit that

their drugs are the problem here--all you need is to listen to the disclaimers

on the drug ads--they're telling people these prescription drugs are going to kill

you or others. This is really sick!!

 

It seems its every year, there's several of these shootings--remember the Batman premiere?? Columbine???

 

Suicidality and Antidepressant Drugs

Antidepressants increased the risk of suicidal thinking and behavior in children, teens, and young adults. Depression and certain other psychiatric disorders are themselves associated with increases in the risk of suicide. Patients of all ages who are started on antidepressant therapy or when the dose is changed should be monitored appropriately and observed closely for clinical worsening, suicidality, or unusual changes in behavior such as becoming agitated, irritable, hostile, aggressive, impulsive or restless.

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By the way I teach aspergers kids-mainstreamed...they are usually very sweet and docile-have some social issues but are rather intelligent, kind, and want to be with others even though socially they are awkward-I have 4 students with aspergers...so whatever the media is saying about the autistic spectrum, please do not listen to them.

 

I've been a TA a few times, with elementary school-aged kids, many with Asperger's or behavioral issues, and same deal. They may not pick up on social cues, but they're sweet, super intelligent children. And the spectrum is just that– so varied that almost nobody placed on it is exactly the same as anyone else. In all my years working with kids, I only knew one who I would categorize as violent (tried to lunge at me with some scissors, eep). So, yes, I find the link to the autism spectrum to be awful because there's already enough stigma attached to it.

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It is lovely that the kids you teach are sweet. But, the autism spectrum is called a spectrum for a reason. No 2 people with autism are the same. It is moossible to make any judgement about kids with autism. That's just the nature of it. I of course agree that no one should listen to the media. But, we all need to remember that 4 sweet kids does not mean that Evernote on the spectrum is sweet. I have been working with autistic kids for many years as well. This summer I worked with 2 seperatly and they couldn't be more more opposite. Everyone is different, including kids with autism. Some are sweet, some can do rotten things.

 

I think there is an important lesson to be learned here. This guy did have autism. Instead of sitting here and calling him disgusting (not saying that he isn't a bad person) we should think to ourselves how can we prevent this? What can we do to help those in need? This is not the first school shooting by someone who is mentally ill. We need to figure out how I help those who need it. There is no excuse for not helping these people. This guy,s I have forgotten his name (not that it is really worth mentioning), mother was trying. Unfortunately the system wasn't working fast enough for her. Look what happened? There has to be something more we can do.

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And then the sport of airsoft was invented out of Japan because of the lack of real firearms.

 

Really? I've always wondered where that crap came from. Running around dressed up and kitted out for hundreds of $ in real gear with a gun that shoots little plastic thingies....

 

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Really? I've always wondered where that crap came from. Running around dressed up and kitted out for hundreds of $ in real gear with a gun that shoots little plastic thingies....

 

Yep, post-WWII US occupation banned all forms of weapons in order to prevent any subsequent aggression (minus limited availability of traditional weapons); they even banned much reference to the militaristic culture of Japan including Bushido [similar policies were placed in Germany by the Allies after the fall of the Nazi regime]. During the 70's the Japanese gun enthusiasts wanted to develop replica firearms because they had to get around the government's extremely strict gun laws (law enforcement agencies aren't even allowed to have guns). From there the concept evolved into a legitimate war game with authentic gear and authentic-replica firearms. Still, the Japanese shooting enthusiasts preferred real firearms for range shooting.

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Murder or Jamie Knight my brother in law's brother

 

I present this link as evidence to what I speak of hereafter and hope that you will all read of the murder of Jamie Knight and internalize a small part of the effect of his death on myself and my family.

 

It's not with ease that I have finally decided to respond to this topic. It is an extremely emotional topic for me and my family and I have tears as I talk about it.

 

There are so MANY things that are at work here that there is no easy answer. I am not someone who advocates an entire ban on gun ownership in America, as I fully realize how our country was built in part on the right to own firearms. My closest friend even owns several firearms, and has served as a police officer and an investigator for the State of New York for the past 6 years or so now.

 

My family has been directly effected by this sort of thing in that my brother in law's brother, Jamie Knight was shot in the head and killed while working in a Friendly's restaurant in January of 1997 in Richmond, Virginia. So unlike many others, I can speak to this personally on some level. I have seen a small part of the effects that a gun murder has on a family, and I finally worked up the courage and talked to my sister about it a few years ago and I got some perspective on the ultimate toll it takes on a family. Obviously the effects of the murder effect my opinion, I won't deny that.

 

I feel like that no matter what regarding gun control that there are certain people who will be denied the opportunity of possessing a gun to protecting themselves against someone who has possession of a gun. A lot of people FOCUS on the fact that murders will still be murders, but in doing so they may not fully appreciate the toll of a gun murder on the family of victims. Therefore I feel like some kind of gun control is neccessary. There is nothing that might have saved my brother in law's brother Jamie perhaps with regards to gun control in the United States. That said, there are certain weapons that no one has a right to own IMO, other than military or police personelle, functioning in their roles. Of course there may be little to stop a rogue cop or military memeber from committing a horrific crime, even with those constraints. Even so, I can't see the reason for anyone being allowed to own an automatic or semi-automatic weapon either for protection or for hunting, where the damage done by such a weapon would negate both the sporting aspect and practical aspect of hunting IMO. I think it is ENTIRELY fair to discuss gun control after this and in NO WAY disrespects the victims or their families. I think it's fair for me to speak to that as having had my family effected by a devasting gun murder.

 

My brother in law's family has been very involved in efforts to improve gun control laws in Virginia, even though it likely would not have saved their son's/brother's life. My family also realizes that these kind of acts effect more than just their own family, as my sister and brother in law buy and wrap Christmas presents every year for the children of parents who have committed a violent crime and are in prison and unable to buy presents for their children. To me it brings tears to my eyes and is one of the greatest gifts of humanity that they can think not simply of their own loss but also of the losses suffered by the families of purpatrators of crime.

 

So many people suffer because of these violent acts. Can't we just discuss ways to possibly improve/prevent further disasters of the nature in Newtown, Connecticutt? The press conference by the NRA was DISPICABLE to my family as we listened to it. I truly can't even describe the vehemance and anger we felt, even though we were not terribly surprised. Let's make America safer. I'm not oppossed to having trained/armed personelle at schools. What I AM oppposed to is the kinds of weapons that are available in the United States to purpatrators of these kinds of crimes. Let's stop that. Let's move beyond the rhetoric and feel the very REAL emotional and physical and mental toll that gun violence takes on the families of vicitims. We will NEVER stop it completely, but if in banning asault weapons we save a few lives and a few suffereings, it will be TOTALLY worth it IMO. PLEASE, let us make this about gun control to honor the memory of those who were lost. Anyone who says that it is disrespectfull to do so is barking up the wrong tree IMO, and you can not tell me differently.

 

PLEASE.. I beg on my hands and knees.... let's talk about gun control and gun laws in America. Let us discuss what might be done to save lives of innocent people. Maybe I'm wrong here.. but to me, the right to Life and Liberty supersede's the right to own a weapon that can take those rights away from several people in an instant.

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No matter how anyone tries to swing this, mentally ill or not, the man was a disgusting, despicable human being. I teach third grade and to see my own students and their kindergarten buddies making gingerbread men the other day with each other made me tear up knowing those young lives in Connecticut were taken so violently while my angels were working. I have to say going back to work this week has been rather surreal and a bit nerve wrecking. We walked into our building Monday morning thinking about the school in Connecticut. We now have police stationed at our school-patroling the grounds-plain clothes.

As for gun control, our country sucks at it...I do not care if people want to own handguns that is their right to protect themselves if for that reason...but assault weapons-FREAKIN BAN THEM ALREADY-WHO the he#@ needs them!!!!! Its just so beyond despicable and horrific what happened to the kids and their teachers. All they did was get up, go to school. Those teachers were planned for the day, going over the schedule and the day. They just wanted to teach their angels.

 

My boss told us her uncle lives there and said the entire conmunity just is devastated and finding it very hard to move past this-how do you move past this???? :'(

 

By the way I teach aspergers kids-mainstreamed...they are usually very sweet and docile-have some social issues but are rather intelligent, kind, and want to be with others even though socially they are awkward-I have 4 students with aspergers...so whatever the media is saying about the autistic spectrum, please do not listen to them.

 

There are just so many questions.

 

I have nieces and nephews around that age, and it definitely made me hug them a little tighter. I simply can't understand how a monster like this can be created, but I'm sure he wasn't a monster, always.

 

And that's what's scary, because this could have been prevented. How, I don't really know. But someone had to have seen his downward spiral, and if they had, 20 children and 6 adults would be alive today.

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I'm a bit late, I know. Of course my heart goes out to all those affected by the Connecticut shootings.

 

I just want to leave you with this 1 statistic

 

In the US, for every 100 people there are 90 guns.

In the UK, for every 100 people there are 6 guns.

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I'm a bit late, I know. Of course my heart goes out to all those affected by the Connecticut shootings.

 

I just want to leave you with this 1 statistic

 

In the US, for every 100 people there are 90 guns.

In the UK, for every 100 people there are 6 guns.

 

 

2011 US violent crime rate: 386 per 100,000

 

2011 England/Wales violent crime rate: 1361 per 100,000

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Protests of gun owners remind me a bit of those of "well-adjusted" drug users; like, people who smoke some marjiuana and pop some ecstasy once in a while. That some people (maybe even the majority) make relatively careful use of something is an argument, but it must be weighed against those cases where things go differently.

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