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#21 ling

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 09:15 PM

She's an actor. In her every day life she is probably quite shy and introverted. But she has the ability to put herself in another mindset, as an actor. Modelling in photo shoots is the same as acting. Again, to use a personal example, I'm an extrovert but I also tend to enjoy a lot of introverted activities. When I am on my own I am quiet, shy and reserved. If you get me in a group of people I'm a lot more bubbly and outgoing. If I'm just going to be running errands I will wear jeans and a hoody, if I'm going out I will wear something nicer and more showy. 

 

Now, those examples are just ordinary people examples, and are things that Emma probably does as well. When you add in the fact that she literally plays pretend for a living, it's not that hard to push that to the next level and assume that it's easier for her to switch into the mindset of an actor and do what she needs to do. Even in her recent interview on Ellen, she said she was nervous to present an Oscar and Ellen said she couldn't tell, and Emma replied "well, I am an actress." 

 

I already know someone is going to jump in and say something along the lines of "if Emma is acting when wearing sexy clothes, maybe she is acting that she's really down-to-earth and normal," to which I basically have to say that the evidence that Emma is fairly "normal" is a lot stronger. She's a super famous multimillionaire, so it's not fair to assume she's "normal" like you and I, but given her circumstances she seems very approachable and honest (were I in her position I'm not sure I'd be similar... I'd probably be quite the diva!). Again, a recent example is the fact that she and her makeup artist blatantly post how much makeup and other products she's using. So many celebrities wear loads of makeup and pretend they don't (and that's FINE! I LOVE makeup, and I love people who wear makeup!), but Emma is often seen looking fairly "normal", sometimes a bit grumpy AND she is open about using things like fake lashes, 3 different kinds of foundation, etc. These are all things I can relate with, despite my lack of fame and fortune, and they seem genuine.



#22 130671

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 09:29 PM

:huh:

On the point of sexiness : Not every low-cut and revealing dress worn ONCE on a red carpet is an expression of a newfound attitude. She is an actress, remember? And her job doesn't just end on the last day of shooting. "Slutty" clothing doesn't seem to be a regular part of her wardrobe.

On the point of betrayal : I felt betrayed when she didn't  - oh well never mind. Get over it.

On the point of talking like person X but acting like person Y : Sounds like the average woman to me :rolleyes:

 

I don't know what it's like to have your pic taken 24/7 and have every word you say recorded and played back to you at every turn by someone - but I imagine it would be quite the impossible job to stay true to everything you ever said. So maybe she just decided some years back that its futile anyway.



#23 Mr. Pumpkinhead

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 10:34 PM

We chose our role models. 

 

If you think that Emma Watson does not stand by her word and is failing or falling short as a role model... well... maybe it's time to find a new role model?  Or adjust your idea of what a role model is/should be? 

 

People are faulted.  All of my role models in life have had faults.  I have my own faults.  Thankfully, there is a lot more I admire about my role models than I take issue with.   Hopefully if anyone looks up to me they see me for who I am (not just look past my faults but recognize them) and decide that I'm still worth looking up to. 

 

Given the unique nature of humanity, we're all going to perceive Miss Watson differently.  We have our own unique morality and values.  Those develop and change over time for each and every one of us.  Emma Watson does not decide how she fits into your picture of morality.  Nor does dookdook, Nor does Johnny, Nor does Ling, Nor do I.  You're responsible for those decisions.   The answers you might seek about Emma Watson and how she behaves are likely not found in others, they're probably found in yourself.


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special thank you to BoMa for her talent and her time and to Mr. and Mrs. Watson for having such a photogenic young lady. =p


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#24 Emma_Rules

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 12:14 AM

i do not use famous people/celebrities as role models, but if i did, Emma would certainly be top of the list. my role models are more personal, such as my Mom, several teachers from school, a long-time friend, and my former division Senior Chief , from my US Navy days. i tend to emulate people i actually know.


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#25 ling

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 07:14 AM

Personally I don't have role models either. There are aspects of people that I admire and hope I come to embody, but on my own terms. People have to live their lives for themselves. Emma didn't sign up to be confined to a little box to reinforce your life choices or provide you with guidance. She's not Hillary Clinton, Mother Theresa or Marie Curie... she's an actor who has appeared in one lengthy film franchise and a handful of other good movies (not groundbreaking masterpieces of cinematic achievement, just good movies). There are obviously traits of Emma's that I think are great and something people should aspire to, but I don't think anyone's self worth should be tied up in a 23 year old woman whose life is NOT normal, who is just figuring things out like the rest of us, and who will likely never even know you exist. 

 

I don't think anyone's self worth should be tied up in other people, period.


Edited by ling, 01 April 2014 - 07:14 AM.


#26 Elena

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 07:24 AM

Hey, just thought I'd pop in for a friendly [feminist] reminder:

 

  • Women can definitely be misogynistic toward other women, in fact it is incredibly common, and is what you are doing when you "slut shame" Emma for doing what she wants with her own body. 

  • People are complex. I once said I'd never do a lot of things, many of which I do now. It's not hypocritical to change your mind. Over the course of 14 years everyone will change their mind and do something they said they wouldn't do. That's called growing. And changing. In life, if you aren't constantly changing you're dead

  • Paparazzi taking photos up someone's dress is a crime. It's a form of sexual exploitation. Putting the blame on anyone but the person using the camera and selling the photos makes you a nasty human being.

  • People, excluding asexual people, are sexual beings. Everyone has the right to express their sexuality in a safe (and consensual... which, again, upskirt photos are not) way, and many people do this through clothing. It's not a crime to want to feel a bit sexy, especially in a photoshoot or at a premiere. Nearly every mature female-identified person I know has dressed up in a way that makes them feel confident and sexy, and sometimes it involves showing a little skin. 

Now you can say I'm white knighting for Emma all you want, but rest assured this is not the case. I'm probably the most critical and opinionated person I know. But these points apply to all people, particularly women. 

 

You say "Miley Cyrus and Lindsey Lohan also started as nice, innocent girls. And look what happend to them." Well, YES. They started as nice, innocent children and grew into complex women, as we all do. Posts like these really make me wonder what kind of bubbles people are living in. Take a look at the world. Emma isn't 10 years old anymore. I was 13 years old when the first Harry Potter film came out, a little girl in the 8th grade, and now I'm a full grown woman, I live in a different country, have a job, a sex life (gasp!), complex ideas and opinions AND SOMETIMES I wear a miniskirt and no bra! Shocking!

 

Take a look at YOUR life? Are you the same person you were five, ten or fifteen years ago? If you are, then I feel VERY sorry for you. :(

I adore you, you always bring such meaningful comments and I have to agree with you. But people will troll anyway. They prob. don't have a life and  go online for a satisfaction they never had - appreciation in real life and so on.


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#27 Mr. Pumpkinhead

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 10:46 PM

Personally I don't have role models either. There are aspects of people that I admire and hope I come to embody, but on my own terms. People have to live their lives for themselves. Emma didn't sign up to be confined to a little box to reinforce your life choices or provide you with guidance. She's not Hillary Clinton, Mother Theresa or Marie Curie... she's an actor who has appeared in one lengthy film franchise and a handful of other good movies (not groundbreaking masterpieces of cinematic achievement, just good movies). There are obviously traits of Emma's that I think are great and something people should aspire to, but I don't think anyone's self worth should be tied up in a 23 year old woman whose life is NOT normal, who is just figuring things out like the rest of us, and who will likely never even know you exist. 

 

I don't think anyone's self worth should be tied up in other people, period.

 

Ling, Perhaps I define role model differently, but what I bolded in your quote is exactly how I define a role model to myself.   I think that's a healthy definition of a role model.  Perhaps the discussion here has skewed "role models" in a negative way?  I agree with everything else you said, and I would just add a caveat to your comment that people have to live their lives for themselves, as I agree with that so long as it's with the understanding that when we do that we balance it with the needs and wants/desires of others who matter to us.  When I say that I simply mean that there are decisions that I have made for myself, my own needs, my own desires, my own satisfaction or happiness, but there are times when someone I loved's needs and yes sometimes even their desires outweighed living my life for myself (this is something I imagine we really discover when we have children LOL).  I also live for them and when I've done so hopefully their need or desire has taken precedence to living my life for myself.   Obviously it's not good to do that all the time.  Balance.

 

I don't think you were denying that in what you said.  If I'm right, you're just saying that we should not let other people's behavior determine our every behavior.  Obviously it's not healthy for anyone here to idealize Emma or put her on a pedestal.  When they do so, they risk either compromising the things they find important to them OR having an unfavorable opinion of her.  It would be a lot healthier for them to pick the things that they admire about her and try to self-incorporate those qualities (something you pointed to when you mentioned there are aspects of how she lives her life that are good things to aspire to).


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Beautiful Emma Watson St. Patrick's Day signature graphic and icon by BoMa
special thank you to BoMa for her talent and her time and to Mr. and Mrs. Watson for having such a photogenic young lady. =p


MY E-FAMILY: e-married to Mrs. Pumpkinhead <3; e-niece: Kim and Kimberley (Kim Twins); e-grandkids: BoMa, Ardi, favorite e-grandchild: Arie<3; e-greatgrandchildren: Will =O, Sarah, Lindy; EX-e-nurse: Carlyn; e-son: Andrew e-daughter: Tara e-soninlaw: Chris e-bestie: Tom jsjs (don't tell Lolly)>.<

#28 ling

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 07:46 AM

Yes, I think there are healthy ways to emulate qualities of people you admire, but when you are downright offended by their basic human right to make choices that stray from your own ideals, as the original poster seems to be, that's where it becomes a problem. 

 

My favourite quote comes from Chuck Palahniuk, and it is “Nothing of me is original. I am the combined effort of everyone I've ever known.” I believe throughout life we gather information and learn lessons about who we hope to be from the people who touch our lives, but that it is a group effort. Whenever you get tied up in one person, the group effort of multiple influences can't happen, and I think it's sad and maybe even dangerous. It's one thing to realize a quality you admired in someone is a quality that you no longer share, but it's another to turn around and blame them when this changes. I feel it's better to be grateful for the lesson they did teach you. In fact, I think it tests conviction a little more. If I admire a quality and the person with that quality changes their mind and adapts a new quality but I do not, then I know for sure that I am convicted in my belief, which at that point would move it into a set of "values" that I hold myself to. 

 

HorseWhisperer admired Emma when she dressed in a "conservative" way that HW found to be similar to the way HW felt comfortable dressing. That's great. Personal style is such a big form of expression! And you learn this from what you see around you. Emma grows up a bit, and becomes a little more daring with fashion, whether it be related to her career or just a general shift in interests, and HW, instead of embracing the fact that they now realize how much they value wearing the clothes they like to wear and how it is a key value of their personal identity, decides to criticize Emma for expressing her own autonomy. For me, that's not really okay, and shows that maybe HW is a bit too tied up in the actions of someone who likely will never be aware of her existence, and it's a bit of a red flag. Because I want HW to be as comfortable in their choices, beliefs and values as Emma is, without needing to use another person to justify those choices.

 

I do agree with your definition of role models, Mr Pumpkinhead. When I say I don't have role models either I mean that I really can't pick out people who I would name as "this person is a role model for me." When asked for a specific person I admire I occasionally lean toward Alan Turing, but even that feels a bit hazy. I'm just a bundle of energy that's been influenced by many people, places and things. :P



#29 KITTY

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 09:10 AM

I thought this would turn out to be another annoying Jonny-styled argumentative post but the above comments just make it to a deeper level.

I mean the comments especially the ones made by Mr. Pumpkinhead and ling are meaningful and inspiring. As a student, who is probably younger than you all, I think I've learnt something from your comments and I'm thankful for that. :)



#30 Elena

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 01:44 PM

Bottom line is that we are on the kind of forum that is hosting a lot of opinionated people, supportive of a girl(human being) actress, Emma Watson.

With all the above being rated at 5 stars. You wanted to know what kind of forum is this, well I think you see what kind it is.

 

I could go on and on why I am a fan of hers and why I support her in her career, because yes she has such an amazing career that I envy!

I'm 25 and I wish I had a quarter of her achievements! I may not always like how she dressed for an event or how she wore certain make-up, but at the end - she is a talented individual, she's more than an actress. She wanted to give up acting. She's able to paint, draw, she's a yoga certified trainer and she could just work as a teacher of English but she had to come back to bring beautiful stories to life such as Perks of Being a Wallflower. She knew she could do so much more. Like if she worked as a teacher, paparazzi would give up taking photos of her, trying to see her panties like they did when she was 18 which was a violation, an exploitation. THAT is not her fault. I love what the guys above wrote. I just had to add my two pence here.

This is what it's like to live in a digital, materialistic world.


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#31 ling

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 05:47 PM

I thought this would turn out to be another annoying Jonny-styled argumentative post but the above comments just make it to a deeper level.

I mean the comments especially the ones made by Mr. Pumpkinhead and ling are meaningful and inspiring. As a student, who is probably younger than you all, I think I've learnt something from your comments and I'm thankful for that. :)

 

Aww this made me soooo happy! :) A few of my friends and I are currently working on a project online where I hope to write more about these kinds of things in a focused way, because I really do find topics like self discovery and how we are influenced by society to be really interesting, and writing is the way I best express these things and learn more about my own values. A comment like this is really motivating to me, so thank you! 



#32 Mr. Pumpkinhead

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 09:33 PM

I love the Chuck Palahniuk quote that you posted Ling.  It speaks an important truth, because much of how we conduct ourselves is part and parcel to the things we have seen and been given by the people around us.  That's why it's soooo important to be mindful of the people we are, having enough self-awareness of the fact that our actions and behaviors (both directly and indirectly) can be of benefit or a detriment to someone else.  Many times we don't appreciate fully the power and influence a. that others have had on us and b. that we have upon others. Mr. Palahniuk's quote nicely expresses the potential power of our influence.

 

I'm glad in a way that HorseWhisperer put her opinion out there.  First off, however anyone here agrees or disagrees with her, the fact that she has the freedom to, and the venue for expressing an opinion without being only ridiculed for it is important.  Secondly, hopefully the sharing of disparate views allows for some self discovery and growth.  That isn't guaranteed, it all comes down to how the different messages here are internalized.  What is guarenteed is opportunity.  Which brings me to Kitty's comment...

 

Kitty:

 

Speaking for myself, I hope that learning never stops in life.  This forum has given me many opportunities to learn.  Sometimes it was something whimsical and at other times something deeper and more personal.  I've learned things from both teens here and adults here.   I feel honored by your comment.  Thank you.  :)


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Beautiful Emma Watson St. Patrick's Day signature graphic and icon by BoMa
special thank you to BoMa for her talent and her time and to Mr. and Mrs. Watson for having such a photogenic young lady. =p


MY E-FAMILY: e-married to Mrs. Pumpkinhead <3; e-niece: Kim and Kimberley (Kim Twins); e-grandkids: BoMa, Ardi, favorite e-grandchild: Arie<3; e-greatgrandchildren: Will =O, Sarah, Lindy; EX-e-nurse: Carlyn; e-son: Andrew e-daughter: Tara e-soninlaw: Chris e-bestie: Tom jsjs (don't tell Lolly)>.<

#33 KITTY

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 12:43 PM

Aww this made me soooo happy! :) A few of my friends and I are currently working on a project online where I hope to write more about these kinds of things in a focused way, because I really do find topics like self discovery and how we are influenced by society to be really interesting, and writing is the way I best express these things and learn more about my own values. A comment like this is really motivating to me, so thank you! 

 

 

Kitty:

 

Speaking for myself, I hope that learning never stops in life.  This forum has given me many opportunities to learn.  Sometimes it was something whimsical and at other times something deeper and more personal.  I've learned things from both teens here and adults here.   I feel honored by your comment.  Thank you.  :)

 

Your replies made me happy as well! I'm glad to have these opportunities to learn from both Emma and her supporters :)



#34 JParko

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 09:31 AM

Hey, just thought I'd pop in for a friendly [feminist] reminder:

 

  • Women can definitely be misogynistic toward other women, in fact it is incredibly common, and is what you are doing when you "slut shame" Emma for doing what she wants with her own body. 

  • People are complex. I once said I'd never do a lot of things, many of which I do now. It's not hypocritical to change your mind. Over the course of 14 years everyone will change their mind and do something they said they wouldn't do. That's called growing. And changing. In life, if you aren't constantly changing you're dead

  • Paparazzi taking photos up someone's dress is a crime. It's a form of sexual exploitation. Putting the blame on anyone but the person using the camera and selling the photos makes you a nasty human being.

  • People, excluding asexual people, are sexual beings. Everyone has the right to express their sexuality in a safe (and consensual... which, again, upskirt photos are not) way, and many people do this through clothing. It's not a crime to want to feel a bit sexy, especially in a photoshoot or at a premiere. Nearly every mature female-identified person I know has dressed up in a way that makes them feel confident and sexy, and sometimes it involves showing a little skin. 

Now you can say I'm white knighting for Emma all you want, but rest assured this is not the case. I'm probably the most critical and opinionated person I know. But these points apply to all people, particularly women. 

 

You say "Miley Cyrus and Lindsey Lohan also started as nice, innocent girls. And look what happend to them." Well, YES. They started as nice, innocent children and grew into complex women, as we all do. Posts like these really make me wonder what kind of bubbles people are living in. Take a look at the world. Emma isn't 10 years old anymore. I was 13 years old when the first Harry Potter film came out, a little girl in the 8th grade, and now I'm a full grown woman, I live in a different country, have a job, a sex life (gasp!), complex ideas and opinions AND SOMETIMES I wear a miniskirt and no bra! Shocking!

 

Take a look at YOUR life? Are you the same person you were five, ten or fifteen years ago? If you are, then I feel VERY sorry for you. :(

 

There is a big load of sense!



#35 Ashley

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 05:05 PM

To be honest, I haven't seen Emma ever dress "sexy" and if she's wearing something that would be considered "sexy" it's usually worn in a classy way.
Emma's never dressed "trashy" like Miley Cyrus....
And I think she is still the same down to earth normal girl that we have all admired for so long. She still wears sweat pants and hoodies in pap pics for gods sake.

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#36 Mr. Pumpkinhead

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 02:24 AM

To be honest, I haven't seen Emma ever dress "sexy" and if she's wearing something that would be considered "sexy" it's usually worn in a classy way.
Emma's never dressed "trashy" like Miley Cyrus....
And I think she is still the same down to earth normal girl that we have all admired for so long. She still wears sweat pants and hoodies in pap pics for gods sake.

 

First off, I know I'm late with this... but welcome back Ashley.

 

I agree that Emma tends to dress nicely and for comfort and is certainly not a trashy dresser. 

 

As far as dressing sexy, or even trashy though, it's always going to be a function of personal perception.  Some of those perceptions are going to be cultural manifestations and when you're an international celebrity how Emma dresses is going to be viewed differently in Asia, America, The Middle East and Africa for example. 

 

Something I might see as classy or sexy might be viewed as trashy by another culture.  Does that make it a fair critique?  I'm not sure because I don't see it from the other perspective.  IF I was seeing it from a different culture though I hope that I might consider how she dresses relative to how others dress in her culture.  In so doing I would say that her personal fashion is very classy.  Her magazine fashion is to sell magazines and will undoubtedly be more sexy or revealing.

 

The human body can also be artful and doesn't HAVE to be sexual.  So I think the differing perceptions of how she dresses and how one describes it is unavoidable, and not necessarily wrong.. just different. 
 


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Beautiful Emma Watson St. Patrick's Day signature graphic and icon by BoMa
special thank you to BoMa for her talent and her time and to Mr. and Mrs. Watson for having such a photogenic young lady. =p


MY E-FAMILY: e-married to Mrs. Pumpkinhead <3; e-niece: Kim and Kimberley (Kim Twins); e-grandkids: BoMa, Ardi, favorite e-grandchild: Arie<3; e-greatgrandchildren: Will =O, Sarah, Lindy; EX-e-nurse: Carlyn; e-son: Andrew e-daughter: Tara e-soninlaw: Chris e-bestie: Tom jsjs (don't tell Lolly)>.<

#37 Pierobon

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 11:14 AM

A few years ago I saw somewhere on the net a picture of Emma going out of the gym carrying a self-help or motivational book or whatever name it's called in English.
Although everyone is free to read whatever they want, what worries me is the possibility that she's having these "grown-up" behaviors as a form to deal with disappointments she had from expectations that were not achieved in her life - affective, professional, social, healthy, financial or whatever expectations she might had in that enigmatic mind of hers. I mean, if you are doing it for the sake of your own experience and curiosity, it's ok. If instead you expect they (behaviors) will fulfill you in anyway, or if they will attract attention or people for your life, then you will be in the same path that addicted people go.
The good feelings will be awesome, then burn away.

In other words, if you want quality joy and fulfillment in your life, there are no shortcuts. Instead of what you do in your life, you have to look at what you use your life for.
You can never teleport, you can only go trough different roads.
This is actually not hard at all, it's only tricky.

PS.: Ling, you are amazing, please tell me you blog address - wanna read it right now yesterday!




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