cbmac12 Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Welcome girl Well for one thing the quote is Emma thinks fans would agree and fans wonder if Ron would have really made her happy...An excerpt that is being misread by media saying Emma agrees when it's Emma saying fans would agree and fans wonder (referring probs to H/Hr shippers LOL)... But from this excerpt Emma is not saying she agrees so we will need to wait and read whole article...happier note Romione fandom is alive and well Link to post Share on other sites
Emma_Rules Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 i just wanted to throw my two cents in and say, that regardless of any new interview materials involving the author and cast, that Ron and Hermione will always work for me, and they are still quite credible and touching as a couple, after many, many viewings of the HP films. Romione have my vote! Link to post Share on other sites
cbmac12 Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Awwww you have my vote to join here anytime that was very sweet...yes we Romione fans/shippers will and do believe that always R/Hr were always meant to be together thanks again for your sweet comments. Link to post Share on other sites
Luciana Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Well, I know I´ve been away for a long time, but I must say that Rowling´s words broke my heart. And if it´s true that Emma said that Hermione would have been happier with Harry than with Ron, I will lose my respect for her. I´m sorry, but I´m upset.... Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Pumpkinhead Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Perhaps it's odd to say this, but the outcry over the comments that have been released thus far has kind of made me feel better about the ship then I have in a long time. It's something of a renewal of the conversation and along with the renewal has come all the support and love for Ron and Hermione and Harry and Ginny that exists in fandom. While dormant in many it's still there, and all it took were some snippets and quotes from an article we've yet to read to bring that passion and love back to the fore. That really speaks to the characters and to HP fandom. The reason HP became so important to so many people were the emotional attachments readers had with the characters over the years. For a generation the stories functioned as a passage way away from computers and televisions back to the written word. Or at the very least a reprieve. I told my twin brother about the comments today. He enjoyed the series and read it before I ever did, but hasn't held the lasting attachment to it that I have. He has told me in the past that he did not always care for Ron's character and the he prefferred Harry and Hermione as a couple. When I told him about the comments today, he responded much as Emma did, saying that he could see where and why she might say that and how it could appeal to some fans. And then he said, "but it's a bit confusing in context of the books, because Harry never really showed any kind of affection or attraction to Hermione in the books. In the movies I could see it, but not the books." If the relationship choices are clear to non shippers, that kind of validates my view which I know has it's predisposed prejudice. Welcome back both Luciana and Sabine. And thanks for the support Emma Rules and from all who have showed a bit of their love for Ron/Hermione and Harry/Ginny. You make me proud to ship the ships I ship (does that make any sense?) Link to post Share on other sites
trixie Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I don't know what to say or respond to this.I'm very upset. And cheated. All this R&hr H/hr battle has been a torn and split the fanbase and now JKR cheats both sides. This doesn't give the fans anything. Oh my Rowling and I don't like this at all. I agree with the upset comments and responds. Oh well. it doesn't change anthing until she rewrites the plot! Link to post Share on other sites
rhrshipper Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Very true Mr PumpkinHead, the fact that inspite of R/Hr relationship just being a subplot in the HP series, it is kind of amazing to see the overwhelming response from the fans- R/Hr shippers as well as the neutrals alike - who have been venting out their frustration and shock at the comments.. This shows the kind of support for R/Hr and the unabated love for the couple even years after the entire series came to an end... Personally. it also boosts my liking and empathy towards the character of Ron Weasley- who is my favourite fictional character ever- who taught me that you can have your flaws and shortcomings- but you can still be a good person on the whole. R/Hr forever. Link to post Share on other sites
Dumbledores Woman Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Firstly, it's nice to see the thread so alive again! Welcome back Luciana and Sabine, it's nice to see you around The reason for this, however... I can't get my head around. Personally I'm going to wait for the full article before I form an opinion. But at the moment, something doesn't quite add up to me. JKR is well within her rights to express whatever opinion about the series as she would like. But personally I just can't comprehend how someone who not only wrote such a beautiful relationship but defended it and validated it, could now turn around and decide that wasn't good enough. I can totally understand her looking back and thinking, 'you know what, maybe H/Hr would have worked better' or 'H/Hr would have been good in this way but R/Hr are good in this way', but to outright say that she regrets her choice is something different entirely. It's a shame not only for the fans, who have spent their lives loving these characters, but for the author herself, who spent a grand portion of her life creating amazing characters who it now appears she didn't know very well. I'm hoping the full article sheds some light as to what has made her say these things or puts them in a better-explained context, but if this really is the truth, I am baffled and, quite frankly, hurt. Link to post Share on other sites
Luciana Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Firstly, it's nice to see the thread so alive again! Welcome back Luciana and Sabine, it's nice to see you around The reason for this, however... I can't get my head around. Personally I'm going to wait for the full article before I form an opinion. But at the moment, something doesn't quite add up to me. JKR is well within her rights to express whatever opinion about the series as she would like. But personally I just can't comprehend how someone who not only wrote such a beautiful relationship but defended it and validated it, could now turn around and decide that wasn't good enough. I can totally understand her looking back and thinking, 'you know what, maybe H/Hr would have worked better' or 'H/Hr would have been good in this way but R/Hr are good in this way', but to outright say that she regrets her choice is something different entirely. It's a shame not only for the fans, who have spent their lives loving these characters, but for the author herself, who spent a grand portion of her life creating amazing characters who it now appears she didn't know very well. I'm hoping the full article sheds some light as to what has made her say these things or puts them in a better-explained context, but if this really is the truth, I am baffled and, quite frankly, hurt.This!!! She always supported Ron and Hermione relationship, and now she says it was a mistake? It makes any sense!! Besides, she is ruining her own story, because after this, I can´t read the books or watch the films without thinking that the author regrets the ending. Link to post Share on other sites
Emma_Rules Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 my Harry Potter books and HP blu-ray films will NEVER change. Ron and Hermione are canon and credible, as are Harry and Ginny. i regret nothing!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Gigi Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 That is really like someone did everything for you, always cared about your life and even married youBUT after all those happy years together, this someone says to you that he / she did not truly love you and did not want to be with you as well.It would hurt very much, it would make you think "What's the point of caring for someone so much at all, if you don't love that person?" Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Pumpkinhead Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Hopefully a lot more clarity will come tomorrow. If 10 great comments about the Harry/Ginny and Hermione/Ron relationships were made do we view this differently? For me if the comments are placed in a different context that somehow derive from a Bizzaro World Jo Rowling then perhaps I'd view them differently. If they stand as is... than any surrounding platitudes to the standing relationships will seem empty and contrived. Link to post Share on other sites
galadriel12 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) I think what bothers me the most is the feeling I get that JKR doesn't care (anymore?) about Ron. I might me totally wrong and - again - the full interview tomorrow when we read JKR's words might put things into perspective a bit more, but ... JKR was always aware and apparently aghast at the Ron-bashing that mainly came from the shipping wars. She must have known that her uncertainty about R/Hr now must ignite another round of Ron-bashing. All the old arguments seem to come up again. At least that's what I could see by skimming through some threads on another forum. I don't need to repeat them here ... we all know them too well. So I'm asking myself what JKR's agenda of even "going there" right now might be. I always considered JKR's words as part of canon, or almost-canon. Her sort-of taking back R/Hr is confusing, to say the least. Edited February 5, 2014 by galadriel12 Link to post Share on other sites
rhrshipper Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 In a fictional world, people get drawn more towards ideal characters who are perfect or near perfect- like Harry, Hermione, Lily and Dumbledore. Ron is one of the most realistic characters in ther series who has certain flaws(just like all of us) but still a very noble character on the whole. Some readers tend to pretend as though they do not have any flaws and so they do not like Ron. If we analyse Ron's character from a broader perspective, it is no surprise that Ron may be having some of the insecurities which any person in his position would have had.Ron's deepest fears were: being unloved, and an inferiority complex of being a mediocre among his siblings and the trio in terms of achievements and abilites. Ron was born in a poor family. He was a victim of the 'middle child syndrome'- All his possessions were hand me downs from his elder siblings. His brothers had scaled heights and he had to live upto their level. The way his twin brothers and his own younger sister(for whom he was very protective) rebuffed and taunted him does not help him to assuage his insecurities. His thoughts that he was the least loved by his mother was definitely unfounded, but in the books we get to see Mrs Weasley showing more outward signs of affection to Harry. But Ron always tried to put up with it, trying to convince himself that it wasnt true, but still had them buried somewhere deep in his mind. Nevertheless, he rarely showed any sort of indifference towards Harry and always remained loyal to him- that shows Ron's real character. Fans love to gloss over the fact that even when Ron wasnt talking to Harry in GoF, he had come down to check on Harry when he had not come to bed late in the night. It was the effing Horcrux which finally fed on Ron's insecurities and stirred it up again, and made him imagine things much worse than what he had ever feared. People forget that Ron was not in his senses when he left the trio in DH, (because of the horcrux), that he was the one who was wearing the locket when the trio overheard the Ted Tonks say that "the Weasleysdon’t need any more of their kids injured,do they?", which would have definitely compounded his fears. People forget that he wanted to come back the moment he left, and he did come back to the river bank, but couldnt find them anymore because of the protective enchantments.. Ron's inferiority complex and lack of self-belief also gets into his romantic life- he fears whether he is worthy enough for Hermione who is the smartest witch of his generation and therfore his feelings remain confined to jealousy and frustration. The relation between Hermione and Krum, an international celebrity. further lowers his self-esteem-- Ron seeks Harry's advice on what Hermione sees in Ktum. Upon knowing that Hermione had kissed Ron, Ron's inferioriy complex hits an all time high that he starts going out with Lavender, the only girl who had ever shown an outward interest in him. It is no surprise that it is none other than Hermione who understands Rons insecurities to an extent, It is Hermione who tries to explain patiently to Harry why Ron feels sidelined(GoF). It is Hermione who defends Ron from his twins' snide remarks when he gets the Prefects Badge(OoTP). It is Hermione who distracts Ron from the badges mocking him sported by the Slytherins before his first Quiditch match(OoTP). It is Hermione who understands that Ron's Quiditch performances would improve in the final match as his twin brothers have left the school.. And it is finally Hermione who makes the first move and invites Ron to the Christmas party(HBP) after finally giving up that Ron would be the one to take the initiative. Ron is the glue that keeps the trio together, we all know how depressed and frustrated Harry was in GoF and in DH, without Ron. I hate it when people write off Ron as a mere sulking sidekick for comic relief- he is much much more than that. Why does Emma share some of the fans' doubts whether Ron could make Hermione happy? Ron is the only one who has expressed admiration for Hermione(right from PoA), Ron is very protective: is ready to sacrifice himself for her(Malfoy Manor)- what more do you want to make someone happy? You need relationship counselling for a relation that was not merely a physical attraction but a slowly and steadily growing emotional bonding over 7 years? I am sorry for the long post guys, this is what I believed JKR had meant about Ron, his friendhip with Harry and his relationship with Hermione, but I am quite baffled by the latest comments..... I may be overreacting, but I hope we get a clearer picture once the full interview comes out... Link to post Share on other sites
trixie Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 ^^ This is a great post and i fully agree. I need to read that interview and hope soooo much that its misquoted but I fear its not...Trixiejustdon'tgetit.. Link to post Share on other sites
trixie Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I've read the article now, and it wasn't a un read at all.. Link to post Share on other sites
rhrshipper Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 ^^.. Thanks Trixie... The full interview is out guys... All is well.... You can read it here:http://www.mugglenet.com/jkrint-wonderland-020714.shtml JKR says that Ron needs to work out on his self-esteem and Hermione on being less critical, She says that Ron and Hermione need to sort out their incompatibilities, which would be okay when they are young but not during adulthood.She says that Harry and Hermione would have been a good couple, but girls like Hermione would like someone like Ron to lighten them up and with a little bit of counselling Ron and Hermione would come good in the end...!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Dumbledores Woman Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 ^ Thanks for posting the article. I'm not quite sure how to take it at the moment, I have very mixed feelings. Link to post Share on other sites
galadriel12 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I'm not sure I really feel that much better. I guess knowing the full interview now and everything that happened this week as a result of the quotes (mainly the Ron-hate) has to sink in first. I'm glad though that JK finally acknowledged that Hermione too has/had to work on her issues. She's often perceived as this flawless being that could do no harm. But that's what I love so much about Hermione, that she's not perfect. That she is so intense - as JK too put it - and can be so ... nerve-grating. She has all these good, amazing qualities but her flaws make her a real and relatable "person". Basically, as I read it, JK has become aware of why she has written RHr. She doesn't say she regrets it. Her words might be interpreted as "RHr isn't credible" (and I know some HHr people will continue to interpret it this way). But she never said RHr isn't credible, right? She just said she didn't think about credibility when writing RHr. I have to add a huge compliment to Emma. She's really a good interviewer. Smart girl. Maybe another career option? Link to post Share on other sites
Dumbledores Woman Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 I agree Sabine. When talking about credibility it seemed to me that she meant more in terms of literary credibility - as in, she followed what she wanted with R/Hr rather than what would be a more expected or credible choice from a literary point of view. But this is one of the things I love about R/Hr. The hero didn't get 'the girl' - and not because he couldn't, but because he didn't want to. He didn't have time to fall in love with his best friend. He couldn't afford to risk losing someone who was so pivotal to his journey and success, either through making her more of a target or by running the risk of things ending badly between them. That's why I think H/G work well - yes, there's a fair amount about them in HBP, but at the crucial moments of the story Ginny is a support in the background - always there helping Harry in her own way, but aware the story isn't about them, it's about Harry defeating Voldemort. This isn't a romance novel - Harry being with Hermione would have made it more of one. From Hermione's point of view, I also love that she didn't go for 'the hero' - she chose HER hero, the guy who was always overshadowed by everyone, because she saw the potential in him. So much of Ron and Hermione's character development and maturity was centred around each other and what they brought out of each other - Hermione had to ease up a bit, Ron had to grow up a bit - that it seems difficult to imagine HP WITHOUT the two of them on that path. And this is exactly why I don't understand JK saying they both still have to change and it might not work because they are so different: yes, they are, and I don't believe for a second that their relationship would be all plain sailing. Sure, they'd fight sometimes and not always see eye to eye - that's a REAL relationship. But R/Hr have already changed and matured to the point of a relationship. What about Ron destroying the locket? In that he overcame a lifetime of insecurities. Of course I don't expect them to disappear forever, but he's gone through that struggle that his character was building to for years and he vanquished it. Deathly Hallows showed Hermione and Ron fulfilling their own personal journeys as much as Harry - and through those, they were able to prove that they were ready for each other, leading to the climax during the battle. Ultimately, had H/Hr been written right from the start, I would have accepted it and probably supported it, because it would have been intended that way. I can't help but feel it would make a huge difference to the series, with the balance of the trio drastically altered. I completely accept that R/Hr are flawed and that in some ways H/Hr may well work better. But there are also other ways in which H/Hr are also fundamentally flawed and R/Hr work better. I have wondered how much of JKR's change in opinion has been down to her latest marriage - in identifying herself with Hermione and her latest husband with Harry, perhaps that has lead her to prefer the dynamic of H/Hr. I know I myself have identified my own relationships as being closer to the dynamic of H/Hr and have wondered in the past why I don't prefer that pairing. I suppose the point is, that Hermione could have a viable relationship with Harry or Ron. Each could work out, each could end terribly. In Hermione's case, she fell in love with Ron and had beautiful Weasley babies and that is the only canon I care about. Link to post Share on other sites
galadriel12 Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Wonderful post, Katherine, lovely words about our favorite couple. I'm still not comfortable - and never will be - with JK using words like "maybe" or "probably" they will be alright. They looked pretty much alright to me in the epilogue 2017. Yes, Ron "lied" to Hermione about cheating in his driver's test, but the dynamic I saw at work between them there is very simikar to Arthut and Molly's and aren't they a loving, happy and successful couple? And "fundamental incompatibilities"? Where? Which? Ron and Hermione are different in some ways, and in some they are quite the opposite really. But that doesn't equal incompatible, does it? Anyway, Ron and Hermione belong together. With everything they've gone through, they will manage to deal with their differences in every-day life and thus be a good example for their children. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Pumpkinhead Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) First off, thank you very much for your detailed and impassioned defense of Ron rhrshipper. Thank you too, for posting the link to Emma's interview with Jo regarding the statements that have set off the fire alarm in the shipping house. After having read the entire interview and seeing it in context I have very mixed feelings about it. I agree with Galadriel that Emma did a great job with the interview. I have not yet read Emma's other interviews and I imagine she would have a level of comfort and familiarity with Jo Rowling that could make that interview less intimidating. Dumbledore's Woman did a wonderful job too of expresssing many of the things a lot of us feel regarding the Ron and Hermione relationship. From my own perspective, one reason I've never been bothered by Harry and Hermione proponents (aside from not having experienced the shipping wars) is that their relationship did not seem implausible to me. Had that been the direction Jo Rowling had taken the books I could have supported it and been good with it, even if I still preferred a Ron and Hermione pairing and Harry/Ginny pairing. A definite thorn for me regarding the interview was the complete absence of Ginny in the discussion (Her inclusion is one of the things I really appreciate most about Katharine's analysis). Perhaps people would take issue with me for saying this, but Ginny was as much a heroin as Hermione was. And.... yes... Ron ... and Neville... and Snape as well as others were just as heroic as Harry. The central theme of the book reducing it to it's most basic essence was the battle of good vs. evil. How and why is evil defeated? It's defeated by good because good has love and unity and trust. Evil does not have love or unity or trust, it has deception and selfishness and hate. The characters (as in life.. the people) who embody love, unity and trust... those characters (people) are heroic. Voldemort is only defeated by the group of them. There is no way Harry defeats Voldemort all alone. Hermione knew this, Ron likely knew it. And I think ultimately Harry knew it. Of course, there is no way ANY of the characters beat Voldemort on their own, so I'm not belittling or faulting Harry at all for that. That point was beautifully illustrated in how each and every horcrux was defeated by a different character. Aside from Voldemort and Crabbe who demonstrated how evil is self defeating (each illiminating a horcrux) a different heroic character was needed to destroy the other horcruxes. So while I understand the reasons for the discussion of Harry as "THE HERO" and Hermione as "THE HEROIN" I kind of take issue with that from a personal perspective. So I'm not saying that Jo Rowling would deny any of those other characters were heroic. I simply believe that in the interview her not acknowledging the heroism of Ron and Ginny is a major oversight. If I really wanted to I could take the argument that the other characters were all more heroic than Harry. Harry as "the chosen one" at least had prophecy if nothing else on his side. The other characters who acted heroically had no personal prophecy protecting them. I'm not making that argument by the way... I'm just saying I could if I wanted to. Haha... I'm gonna go on forever with this if I'm not careful, because I haven't even gotten into the relationships yet. Perhaps I'll leave it here for now, as we continue the discussion. If I'm going to be critical of Ms. Rowling's interview I at least owe a complete and detailed explanation (because I love/respect her story so much and love/respect her so much for writing it). Edited February 8, 2014 by Mr. Pumpkinhead Link to post Share on other sites
Luciana Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 ^^.. Thanks Trixie... The full interview is out guys... All is well.... You can read it here:http://www.mugglenet.com/jkrint-wonderland-020714.shtml JKR says that Ron needs to work out on his self-esteem and Hermione on being less critical, She says that Ron and Hermione need to sort out their incompatibilities, which would be okay when they are young but not during adulthood.She says that Harry and Hermione would have been a good couple, but girls like Hermione would like someone like Ron to lighten them up and with a little bit of counselling Ron and Hermione would come good in the end...!!!!!!Yeah, she never says that she regrets Ron and Hermione relationship, but I didn`t like the way she describes Ron. She describes him as a weak, insecure guy.... I disagree, but well... Also the tent scene was sh$t, totally out of character. But well, what is done is done. Link to post Share on other sites
Emma_Rules Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 thanks for posting the interview, interesting reads and points from everyone. while the interview does add in the missing context, it changes nothing for me, as everything on paper and film is still totally irrevocably canon for me. the author cannot change my great reading/viewing memories, the characters and relationships that i love to this very day, this very minute. the interview was interesting coming from Emma, especially her and JKR both saying 'i love Hermione'. i love Hermione. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Pumpkinhead Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Yeah, she never says that she regrets Ron and Hermione relationship, but I didn`t like the way she describes Ron. She describes him as a weak, insecure guy.... I disagree, but well... Also the tent scene was sh$t, totally out of character. But well, what is done is done. Luciana, what you've touched upon with the tent scene is my biggest disappointment with the interview. I never liked the scene in the movies, but as a re watched the movies I came to grips with it more as a situation where two friends were comforting one another in their sadness during a difficult time. Basically Harry was just trying to lift Hermione's spirits a bit. For JKR to describe the scene as a kind of what could have been moment completely disintegrates the integrity of her characters. That comment is not only dismissive of Ron, but it diminishes Harry and Hermione. It also completely justifies Ron's leaving. If that were the emotion that JKR was grateful was captured by that scene in the movie, then Ron should never have returned. That little ball of light should have gone into his heart and exploded *yes, I have the propensity for over dramatization on occasion*. Sure Harry and Hermione could have worked and Ginny could have worked with Dean, but who is Ron, the insecure one left with? The only way to resolve that is to kill him off, have him end up alone or create a character out of thin air who he ends up with who the readers have zero emotional attachment to. It would also mean that when Ron accused Harry of being disconected and disinterested in what was happening to Ginny he would have been spot on. It kind of makes Harry a slime ball. I resent that because I love Harry as a character and I love his love for Ginny. I just don't see how JKR can't see that or come to that conclusion when she made those comments. She just rolled a truck over the integrity of Harry and Hermione and left Ron pinned beneath the wheels. That comment is going to make it difficult for me to ever watch the movie again. In making these accusations I know that what I am reacting to is a comment that is likely a fraction of JKRs opinions about her creations. In isolating that comment and ripping it apart I know I'm not doing justice to the depth of her intellectual and emotional investment in Ron, Harry, Hermione and Ginny. The problem I'm having personally is that JKR has lost my trust. I trusted her to stand by her characters the way she wrote them and while being able to discuss their flaws, also trumpet their values. Doubt and a lack of trust if not a relationship killer is a serious hurdle. If JKR doubts her own decision and can't trust her own decision, then why should I as the reader trust it? (<--- I think Sabine may have made this point earlier) My reading experience with the HP series is likely forever altered. Outside of the particular comment that I picked apart I could understand a lot of the other things she was saying regarding Hermione's flaws, Ron's flaws and some of the flaws in their interaction. As far as the counseling comment is concerned I feel like in the moment she was applying an adult view to two adolescents. I think it's fair to assume that both Ron and Hermione still had some maturing that is natural for their age to do by the end of the Battle at Hogwarts. A lot of the back and fourth they had grew out of the tension between their feelings for one another and not knowing how to express those feelings. I should think that once they got together a good portion of the arguments that derived from those tensions would cease. Link to post Share on other sites
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