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Ever since President Obama has declared an end to OIF (Operation Iraqi Freedom,) his main concern now, (besides health care) is OEF (Operation Enduring Freedom.) Obama says that we (being the military) will not get out until January 2014. What are your views on this?

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Unfortunately Obama knows that pulling compeltely out of the war could have serious repercussions, the Iraq's may lose control of their country once again and Alquada (cannot spell it for the life of me) may take the opportunity to attack the US again. As much as id love for them to leave the country, it just wouldnt be wise and Obama knows this. Hence why he hasnt followed through on his promise.

 

I however feel that the soilders/marines are underpaid and unsupplied out there. As far as i am concerned, those men/women gave up their human right to life when they signed on that dotted line and because of this they should be given everything to stop them from actually losing their lives. But no, still inadequete body armour, weapons that dont respond as well as they should etc.

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I personally think the troops should be withdrawn as soon as possible. There are needless deaths and little seems to be accomplished. Most Afghans want the troops out and I don't blame them, I'd hate for a foreign country to come into my country and force martial law upon everyone.

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Unfortunately Obama knows that pulling compeltely out of the war could have serious repercussions, the Iraq's may lose control of their country once again and Alquada (cannot spell it for the life of me) may take the opportunity to attack the US again. As much as id love for them to leave the country, it just wouldnt be wise and Obama knows this. Hence why he hasnt followed through on his promise.

Well before the war, Iraq was working as a state, there wasn't this chaos. Since the war it's unstable. lol if al qaeda wants to attack the US again, they could do it anytime. And what had the Iraq war to do with al qaeda anyway? If he can't keep a promise and he knew about it, he shouldn't make such promises, but we shouldn't be surpised that he didn't held his promise.

 

I however feel that the soilders/marines are underpaid and unsupplied out there. As far as i am concerned, those men/women gave up their human right to life when they signed on that dotted line and because of this they should be given everything to stop them from actually losing their lives. But no, still inadequete body armour, weapons that dont respond as well as they should etc.

I agree with this. But they signed up for it, it was their decision.

 

I personally think the troops should be withdrawn as soon as possible. There are needless deaths and little seems to be accomplished. Most Afghans want the troops out and I don't blame them, I'd hate for a foreign country to come into my country and force martial law upon everyone.

*thumbs up*

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The troops will most probably be pulled out over the next 2 or 3 years. Whenever it is, it will be seen as a failure. Countless lives have been lost for little gain. The politicains and the military top brass will say the right words, but even they will know that objectives have not been reached.

 

Iraq and Afaghanistan will then be self governing, which is what, I suspect most people who live there want.

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Well before the war, Iraq was working as a state, there wasn't this chaos. Since the war it's unstable. lol if al qaeda wants to attack the US again, they could do it anytime.

This is like saying that Germany was organized and run well when Hitler was in power. Do you understand how Saddam Hussein treated his people and some of the things he did to them?

 

But hey thanks for the vote of confidence for the US.

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This is like saying that Germany was organized and run well when Hitler was in power. Do you understand how Saddam Hussein treated his people and some of the things he did to them?

 

But hey thanks for the vote of confidence for the US.

Fair enough. Now I have to ask where your proofs are. I believe it's not certain who did it. The media made Saddam Hussein look like a monster. I don't think you can believe everything what the news were saying. It's called propaganda.

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Fair enough. Now I have to ask where your proofs are. I believe it's not certain who did it. The media made Saddam Hussein look like a monster. I don't think you can believe everything what the news were saying. It's called propaganda.

Having not lived in Iraq personally or known someone who had lived there all I have to offer is what was reported. However, I think you can believe the media on this one. The media in the US leans pretty heavily to the left and they would've loved nothing more than to see President Bush fail and look like a fool. So I kinda doubt the media would make up stories to prop up President Bush.

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Having not lived in Iraq personally or known someone who had lived there all I have to offer is what was reported. However, I think you can believe the media on this one. The media in the US leans pretty heavily to the left and they would've loved nothing more than to see President Bush fail and look like a fool. So I kinda doubt the media would make up stories to prop up President Bush.

Exactlty, we can't know for sure. Hence we can't trust the media a 100% on this. And for sure I wouldn't trust CNN or Fox News or any of these. Those are one of the worst news stations. And imo the state has enough power to bribe. But that's a different topic.

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Exactlty, we can't know for sure. Hence we can't trust the media a 100% on this. And for sure I wouldn't trust CNN or Fox News or any of these. Those are one of the worst news stations. And imo the state has enough power to bribe. But that's a different topic.

But if you're gonna say that then how can we believe that we went to the moon, or that the earth is round or that the holocaust really happened etc.? None of these things I experienced for myself but I take on faith what I've learned from the news and history books.

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But if you're gonna say that then how can we believe that we went to the moon, or that the earth is round or that the holocaust really happened etc.? None of these things I experienced for myself but I take on faith what I've learned from the news and history books.

Well I'm quite sure our planet is round. :P You can even see it your self. Yes but history books are written by the winning power. Only their perspective of what happened is written down. And also propaganda. Thats why you should read and learn not only from one source. You should research your self to make your own opinion, and not just listen to one news station and then believing it without any thinking. Thats a big problem, we let others think for us.

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Well I'm quite sure our planet is round. :P You can even see it your self. Yes but history books are written by the winning power. Only their perspective of what happened is written down. And also propaganda. Thats why you should read and learn not only from one source. You should research your self to make your own opinion, and not just listen to one news station and then believing it without any thinking. Thats a big problem, we let others think for us.

Oh I definitely have my own opinions. I often do my research with materials that are off the beaten path. But then again, opinions can be far different from facts.

 

So is it your belief that no one ever walked on the moon? What about the holocaust? The history was written by the winning powers.

Edited by The Dude
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Oh I definitely have my own opinions. I often do my research with materials that are off the beaten path. But then again, opinions can be far different from facts.

 

So is it your belief that no one ever walked on the moon? What about the holocaust? The history was written by the winning powers.

Well the moon is a difficult topic. I can't really decide. There are facts speaking for it and against it. It could've been only a propaganda thing to say that the US was on the moon first, I do not know. I do belief that the holocaust happened. I'm just not sure about the numbers of deaths.

 

When the troops pull out, will Iraq and Afghanistan be safer to live in, or will they both fall descend into chaos, letting the Warlords and Terrorists take over.

Thats what we'll find out sooner or later.

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IMO the Holocaust did happen, I have like many others seen harrowing newsreel footage of some of the survivors, and heard people's first hand accounts of what went on in those grim camps.

 

 

The Moon landing, on the other hand is not so clear cut ???

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I know this is getting slightly off topic, but I think it's ridiculous to question whether the holocaust happened. It's one of the worst pieces of history, and there is plenty of evidence for it.

 

I do believe we should gather news from as many sources as possible, but it is true that history is written by the victors. There will always be a slight spin on what really happened.

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Although I was and still am against the wars in Iraq and Afgahnistan, I think that it would be wrong to rush pulling the troops out. It needs to be done right and we need to be sure that they are both capable of running as independent countries. If after pulling out the governments fall back under the influence of the Taliban and Al Qaeda, all those losses will have been for nothing, whether it takes five years or even ten years, it needs to be done right.

 

I know this is getting slightly off topic, but I think it's ridiculous to question whether the holocaust happened. It's one of the worst pieces of history, and there is plenty of evidence for it.

I agree, I don't see how anyone can question it, there is just too much evidence. When I visited the Imperial War Museum in London they had a whole exhibition on the holocaust and it is one of the most shocking things I have ever seen, children under 14 were not allowed in. The photographs of dead bodies and the fear on the faces of men, women and children is something that I will never forget.

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I usually compare iraq and afghanistan to another Vietnam. it's just so many years and nothing is accomplished. Obama has already pulled some troops out and I think that's a really good start. I mean, he promised to do it, and he's started to already. I think it's really good when a politician keeps their word. Hopefully he'll get re-elected for a second term so he can pull the troops out fully by 2014. Although it's taking a while I do think that it's important to make sure we can do it fully and try not to leave the country in chaos. I don't think we've really helped over there, in fact I think we should have left well enough alone in the first place. The war has had so many different interpretations, I don't think that anyone really knows what we're fighting for anymore.

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^Karen, In a way, I can relate these wars to Vietnam, and then again, I can't. Yes, we have been in those countries for "x" amount of years. But on the same token, we are accomplishing something, unlike Vietnam where we basically accomplished nothing at all. We have the main mission done (get rid of Saddam Hussein.) Now, our mission is to establish democracy and to train Iraqi and Afghani troops so this kind of thing does not happen again.

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When the troops are pulled out, I can only see trouble for both countries.

They will be 2 unstable countries, I can see various different factions trying to take over, perhaps sharing the spoils.

The Allies should never have invaded, it was pointless.

Most of the world was against it, that is why America and Britain are hated by everyone.

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Most of the world was against it, that is why America and Britain are hated by everyone.

Yeah, but who do they call when they need help?

 

You can't just take our money or supplies or manpower or hard work etc. when you have an earthquake, famine, tsunami, explosion, attack, military invasion or some other tragedy and then just tell us to f--- off the rest of the time. It doesn't work that way.

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Yeah, but who do they call when they need help?

 

You can't just take our money or supplies or manpower or hard work etc. when you have an earthquake, famine, tsunami, explosion, attack, military invasion or some other tragedy and then just tell us to f--- off the rest of the time. It doesn't work that way.

 

True, although when it comes to international aid, I don't think it matters. We should help them because it's the humane thing to do.

 

When I think of Afghanistan, I try to imagine another country invading the UK and taking away our government, imposing martial law and telling us it's for our own good. Obviously the 2 scenarios are different, but you can see why the Afghans aren't so grateful. I'd be pissed off if it happened here. Many of them probably now associate the invasion with the increase in roadside bombs, suicide bombs etc, and I think in general they fail to see that the armies are there for their own good. Think about it though, we've been there since 2001 and there seems to have been relatively little improvement to their lives, so you can see why they're frustrated.

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True, although when it comes to international aid, I don't think it matters. We should help them because it's the humane thing to do.

 

When I think of Afghanistan, I try to imagine another country invading the UK and taking away our government, imposing martial law and telling us it's for our own good. Obviously the 2 scenarios are different, but you can see why the Afghans aren't so grateful. I'd be pissed off if it happened here. Many of them probably now associate the invasion with the increase in roadside bombs, suicide bombs etc, and I think in general they fail to see that the armies are there for their own good. Think about it though, we've been there since 2001 and there seems to have been relatively little improvement to their lives, so you can see why they're frustrated.

I think you're getting Afghanistan confused with Iraq.

 

But you're right, we help them because it's the humane thing to do. If only other countries were as humane, we'd all be a lot better off. Instead they all wanna hate on the US and England unless there's something in it for them. Ungrateful if you axe me.

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I think you're getting Afghanistan confused with Iraq.

 

But you're right, we help them because it's the humane thing to do. If only other countries were as humane, we'd all be a lot better off. Instead they all wanna hate on the US and England unless there's something in it for them. Ungrateful if you axe me.

Ok so you are saying that the US and the UK are the only countries doing humane things? Basically you say war of aggression is humane? Last time I checked war of aggression is forbidden and Germany got punished for it. There are reasons why other countries didn't want to go to war. Plus many countries are participating to occupy Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

Happy New Year.

Edited by W.V.B
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