Mr. Pumpkinhead
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Posts posted by Mr. Pumpkinhead
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The dynamic of the friendship between Harry and Ron kind of gets lost in the rubble of comments on Hermione/Ron and any acknowledgment of a desired Harry/Hermione relationship. In the books at least Ron was Harry's best friend. In the movies, Hermione was the glue for the three, it's the biggest misrepresentation and liberty taken by the writers/directors/producers of the WB series. In the real story Ron was the glue. Ron was the one who Harry wished was there when Hermione got on his nerves. Oh, and could she ever get on his nerves. Just like with Ron, Harry could be annoyed by Hermione's pestering him about what was right and what was wrong. Harry also often found Hermione boring. Ron was the one who would hang out and have a good time with him. One of the largest differences between Harry and Ron was simply that Ron told Hermione when she annoyed him, while Harry suffered in silence. So if Ron and Hermione would have needed counseling then so would have Harry and Hermione.
Here's where another issue arises though. If the books were written largely as they were but JKR had decided to kill Ron late in the series, then would JKR have put Hermione and Harry together? She did that with the twins. She killed Fred and got George together with Angelina Johnson. That always bothered me a bit. Angelina was Fred's gf in the books. Twins are unique. I can honestly say I don't think there was EVER a girl who my twin brother Clifford and I BOTH fell for. One of my biggest pet-peeves growing up was being compared to/with my twin brother in everything. We liked who we liked and valued different things and that didn't make us any less close as friends or as twin brothers. We spent most of the first 20 some odd years of our lives nearly attached at the hip (not literally). A Harry/Hermione relationship would almost seem like a "pity" relationship, with Hermione feeling bad for Harry having lost Ron and Harry feeling bad for Hermione having lost Ron. RON WAS THE GLUE.... but the glue would be gone. What happens when the glues gone? You have two seperate entities with very little in common. Thanks JKR... because that's the best material to build a relationship on.
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Hopefully a lot more clarity will come tomorrow. If 10 great comments about the Harry/Ginny and Hermione/Ron relationships were made do we view this differently?
For me if the comments are placed in a different context that somehow derive from a Bizzaro World Jo Rowling then perhaps I'd view them differently.
If they stand as is... than any surrounding platitudes to the standing relationships will seem empty and contrived.
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42 >.<
hmmmm which unforgivable curse to use?
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Junkie is like Voldemort to my Harry!
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Perhaps it's odd to say this, but the outcry over the comments that have been released thus far has kind of made me feel better about the ship then I have in a long time. It's something of a renewal of the conversation and along with the renewal has come all the support and love for Ron and Hermione and Harry and Ginny that exists in fandom. While dormant in many it's still there, and all it took were some snippets and quotes from an article we've yet to read to bring that passion and love back to the fore.
That really speaks to the characters and to HP fandom. The reason HP became so important to so many people were the emotional attachments readers had with the characters over the years. For a generation the stories functioned as a passage way away from computers and televisions back to the written word. Or at the very least a reprieve.
I told my twin brother about the comments today. He enjoyed the series and read it before I ever did, but hasn't held the lasting attachment to it that I have. He has told me in the past that he did not always care for Ron's character and the he prefferred Harry and Hermione as a couple. When I told him about the comments today, he responded much as Emma did, saying that he could see where and why she might say that and how it could appeal to some fans. And then he said, "but it's a bit confusing in context of the books, because Harry never really showed any kind of affection or attraction to Hermione in the books. In the movies I could see it, but not the books."
If the relationship choices are clear to non shippers, that kind of validates my view which I know has it's predisposed prejudice.
Welcome back both Luciana and Sabine. And thanks for the support Emma Rules and from all who have showed a bit of their love for Ron/Hermione and Harry/Ginny. You make me proud to ship the ships I ship (does that make any sense?)
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You put things so exceptionally well Sabine! Thank you!
It's good to see you back too, even though the literary circumstance that brings your return to the convo here is rather unfortunate. >.<
I soooo find myself wanting to be an apologist for Jo Rowling but the more I think about the comments the more they have poked at me like a sharp stick.
Not only will it be interesting to see the article in full but Jo Rowling's reaction to her fanbase's reaction. Surely she had to have some sense of the public outcry her words might bring. So after all those fans bought her books and watched her movies, did she just throw them the proverbial finger and drop the F-bomb on them? While I doubt that was the intent, I don't think it's a stretch to say it's how a large portion of the HP fanbase has received these revelations.
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I know my comments are reactionary and it's more prudent to be patient and wait for the whole interview...
but the comments as they've been presented thus far just feels like the literary equivalent of infidelity. It's like Jo Rowling created a large segment of her fanbase around the Hermione/Ron and Harry/Ginny relationships, and now she just cheated on them with another segment of her fanbase that preferred other relationships in the story. I know I said it's okay to change her mind and it is, but it's also important to stand by the power of your convictions. If you do not have convictions than you risk losing your moral base. By potentially losing your moral base you risk the defilement of the characters. It opens a big can of worms. Hermione is done a disservice, Harry is done a disservice and Ron and Ginny get left by the wayside.
Oh the irony! Ron ultimately just got treated by Jo Rowling the way that he always feared others would treat him and how he feared others viewed him. The evil Hermione that came out of the locket should have said, "Least loved by Jo Rowling" to Ron. Okay, perhaps I'm indulging in a bit of hyperbole there.
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If the point was to sell magazines then the quotes will have their desired effect.
I hope that isn't the case. At least not as a motivating factor... because if it is then it comes off as very Hollywood... something I'm guessing Jo Rowling might find insulting.
I hope that whatever Jo Rowling said was her genuine opinion even if it has changed.
Reading online right now it seems like Emma's opinion is getting lumped in with Jo Rowlings (at least as far as we can discern from what's been released). Even though I did not take that from the comments myself.
rhrshipper, you mention the "hornet's nest" the comments have created in fandom and my concern for Emma is the potential negative publicity it could bring to her.
It's a bit hard to believe that the backlash would not be anticipated. That's why I hope if JKR's opinion has changed that she truly feels that way. It's going to be extremely hard for her to say that her comments were taken out of context when the context they were put in were via the editorial choices of Emma Watson. It's a bit of a sticky situation for them both I think.
The full interview could bring more clarity or more questions. It will be an interesting hot topic no matter what. Ultimately Jo and Emma will weather the controversy just fine because as fans what we do is react and over react to everything these days. With the landscape of popular culture as it is though, today's controversy quickly becomes yesterday's news. So this too shall pass.
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Rhrshipper and Jon- love and respect what y'all said...
First off, even if JKR does feel this way then that is fine- bottom line is she wrote them as a couple from the start
As for relationship counseling...first counseling is not a bad thing- it strengthens relationships in the end- my best friends went through it and their relationship is even stronger now. As for the article, that's super interesting- wants to sell more and tbh I think it will big time...funny how this one tidbit of interview got "released" before the magazine.
Romione is a very real couple who loves each other more than anything...she has nothing to apologize for to H/Hr shippers- nothing.
ROMIONE FOREVER!!!!!!!!!
Thanks Kristin!
For all my talk I have to admit that there is a slight feeling of hurt. I feel kind of stupid for that. And it makes me want to apologize to Jo Rowling even as silly as it sounds. But to me it just tells me how much I love Hermione and Ron as characters and how much I admire their relationship. It also tells me how deeply I feel about the series.
You always say the right things. I guess that's what makes you captain! Thanks Kris.
And Dee... sorry, I posted this while you were posting... I would never turn on Jo Rowling or her series even if she flat out says Ron and Hermione was a regrettable mistake she wish she could take back. Jo seems like a wonderful person from the things I've read about her and the interviews I've seen with her. I realize that is a snippet into someone's life, but she still wrote a masterwork. IF she thinks now that Harry should be with Hermione I could not discredit that. Harry is a great and wonderful character as is Hermione and it's not like she'd be pairing Hermione with Draco.
JKR doesn't lose my support at all. I also remain a Ron and Hermione shipper no matter what. I would hope that other Ron and Hermione shippers would not be too harsh in their criticisms of Jo Rowling because of these released comments or the whole article once it comes out.
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Are Ralph and Lauren the names of the chickens?
Not that she would know or cares, but I'm proud of Emma for graduating. It's something she didn't have to do. It says a lot about her that she accomplished a goal she set out for herself. Some people I know have been critical of how she went about getting to that goal. I admire some of those people a lot but I disagree with them. Life gives all of us twists and turns. Emma's ability to stick with school and graduate from an extremely prominant institution is inspirational to young girls, to young aspiring actors and anyone who views her as a role model.
I'm sure that Rupert and those closest to her admire and respect her for it.
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I agree R/Hr Shipper. The actual quotes themselves are perfectly understandable. Both from JKR and from Emma.
JKR mentioned that the choice of Ron and Hermione was for very personal reasons. I think it speaks to the popularity of the series that she feels a need to apologize for anything. Which is absolutely ridiculous in my mind. She shouldn't have to do that. I hated the decision to kill off Fred and as a twin I mentioned how someone who understood the bond between twins could never have written that into the series. With that said. She wrote it. I didn't. She made the choices. I didn't. I respect the choice she made and would never expect her to change that choice. But I've always reserved my personal right to agree or disagree with the decision, as I do in any book.
I also reserve my right to change my mind about any of my opinions and she deserves that too. It will be interesting to read the whole interview when it comes out and to hear/read the reactions of the HP stars if they care to comment on it.
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Yacht
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If those quotes are from a reliable source than it still does nothing to change my personal opinion of the Ron and Hermione relationship, and I would respectfully disagree with the counseling comment if that were made.
Fans will always have differing opinions and personally I celebrate that. I've never told a Harry/Hermione shipper that they should be a Ron/Hermione or a Harry/Ginny shipper. In talking to my own twin brother he actually would have preffered that Harry end up with Hermione.
Personally part of the big appeal of the Ron/Hermione relationship to me is that the main female figure does not end up with the most "heroic" male figure. Hermione's decision to be with Ron celebrates her individuality, her discernment of character and her own heroism. The atypical choice of Ron and Hermione as a couple is part of what sets the HP series apart from a lot of fiction. The Ron/Hermione relationship is a real choice not a fictional choice.
I also don't see JKR as worrying about "breaking hearts" really. She's always seemed to whole-heartedly support the feelings and opions of all HP fans no matter what couples they shipped or might have preferred if they did not choose to call themselves shippers. I'm not saying she did not make that comment. Just reading what I have from her in the past, it would seem a bit out of place and inconsistent.
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I think by virtue of the scope of JKR's books that it would be impossible to avoid the underdevelopement of certain characters.
The editors may well be as responsible for our opinions regarding underdevelopment as JKR is though. She has touched upon the fact that the HP books were merely a glimpse into the world that she has created in her mind's eye.
With that said, there's no harm in discussing it and I think this a great thread topic.
In the movies I would say that Peeves was underdeveloped. Was he even in ANY of the movies? Perhaps the first one?
Book wise, I think that Remus and Mr. Weasley are excellent choices, but the character who always could of been more developed who stood out to me was Regulus Black. Stan Shunpike was also a bit underdeveloped as we never really got any idea for his motivation or inclinations to support the Dark Lord.
Awesome topic though as I said, and I love reading everyone's answers.
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Wow Tom, that's a lot of people.
Posted this in the Wind Forum. The Wizard of Oz scared the living daylights out of me for years because of those damn monkeys.
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Well it kinda fell flat
It was amaaaazing thanks, I was just walking around like
. If you ever get the chance, definitely check it out!Not sure if I will ever get to Europe in my lifetime, but if I do, it will be on "the list".
One of the things I really admire with JKR's writing and relationships is how the Harry and Ginny relationship is not important to the story in the sense that we don't see it as Harry's inspiration or his driving force behind defeating Voldemort. It's personal, it's guarded and while it may have been something of a driving force, that aspect of it is private and shared between the two of them. Much as the most intimate and meaningful moments in love are shared between the two and not the world. I think it's part of why some fans find it tough to appreciate the Harry and Ginny relationship. Love does not NEED to be on display to be there. By not being on public display it is not any less meaningful or deeply felt.
Harry is also obviously a Christ figure in JKR's series and much like Christ in the Bible, Harry doesn't arive with pomp and circumstance. No trumpet sounds. There's a song by Chris Tomlin sung by Audrey Assad that I love called Winter Snow. The song describes how Christ arrives like a winter snow, quiet, soft and slow... not like a rushing wind or a forrest fire or a roaring flood. Harry fits that description. He's understated and humble. He does not seek attention or glory. His love with Ginny is like that too. As such, it's very fitting with his character and as a Christ figure. Sometimes I find it absolutely rediculous that there are people who think of the Harry Potter series as anti-religious. Of course that kind of naive closemindedness comes mostly from people who listen to others and do not read something for themselves.
I know I'm getting on a tangent here, but there is something that is kind of a pet-peeve of mine, and that's when a person judges a book or an author without reading their writing. I've seen this a lot with the Twilight series. People feel free to bad mouth the writing because of what they heard from others. I'm sorry, that doesn't cut it with me. In my mind those people lose any credibility with me. Even if they're basing their opinion off of trusted sources. Make an informed opinion yourself is what I say. I've read the entire series and I did not like it. But at least I took the time to read it and make my own informed judgments about it. The people I agree with most in life have several differences of opinion from me. When I read a book review of a book I want to read, I try not to let it dissuade me or convince me to read it. I try to use it as information and perspective whilst I read.
I've seen people do this with the HP series too. It's mind-numbing to me.
Okay, I'm off my rant now. *steps down from soap box*
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Ummmm.... what ever happened to "liven(ing) this thread up"?
Funny definition of livening things up you Brits have. Kinda like watching grass grow.
Ohhh... and how was the WB studio tour btw Katharine?
<----- yes... I'm still jealous. -
Ummm Thessalie... you answered that incorrectly... you do belong to Wind.
And no, I'm not an Earth member (well, at least in it's e-w.net manifestation, even though some may question whether or not I am off the e-w.net forum too)
WIND? (and if you're not... be very jealous because we're the best e-w.net group forum!)
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Girls vs. Guys
in Game Zone
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Linda, don't you start again too!
*asks professor Slughorn, "Professor! I've heard about this rare bit of magic..." *