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People choice awards 2014: Emma nominated, but....


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#21 ling

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 11:26 AM

Or maybe she's just 24 and wants to have fun. If a friend of mine says "hey I want to do this thing this weekend wanna come?" I don't lock myself away for a week of existential fraughtness and contemplate how doing said thing will affect my career. In fact, about 90% of the choices I make in life are completely unaffected by my career. So, if Emma wants to do a movie because her friends are doing it then WOW COOL GREAT. And then when she wants to work on something serious to "advance her career" (although it can't be easy to advance from being one of the most recognizable people in the world from age 9, but some people have high standards I guess), again WOW COOL GREAT. 

 

Not even my own parents spend as much time analyzing my career trajectory as you spend analyzing Emma's, Jonny. :P I think it's a generational thing. People my dad's age are ALL about building careers, homes, families. My mom was settled down with two kids at my age. But the world is a lot different now and that's not what those of us in our early-to-mid 20s WANT. There are a lot more options combined with a lot more problems that make becoming an adult right now a pretty complex affair, whether you're a 25 year old web designer or a 24 year old movie actor.



#22 Jonny Carinthia

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 11:33 AM

Ling, I think analyzing is not the right word. For me it is more like: How does a talentend, super-beautiful and intelligent actress sell's herself...... I mean, Emma is clearly a woman with brain, so I cannot understand why she is doing some things like she does.

I further do not think that she is in need to "creat a career", she already has one.

 

If Miley Cyrus whould say: "I will be part of a movie, in which my co-stars are discussing raping me!" I would say, ok, crazy chick, go on.

 

But Emma, our "down to earth" girl with much more behind the beautiful face then "basic life performance" - I do not get it, really.


"Benutze es!" = "Use it!"

„Dreams come true; without that possibility, nature would not incite us to have them.” John Updike


#23 Roberto

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 12:13 PM

You're looking at her choices from an outsider's point of view. You see these decisions and how they affect her image.
 
Look at this from her point of view. Do you really think she cares if her roles help "represent" the image that the rest of the world has chosen to see her as?
 
She isn't thinking about how her image will be affected when choosing roles, because that's not what actors do. That's what celebrities like Miley Cyrus do.
 
Miley is selling a brand. All her decisions are based on that brand.
 
Emma isn't selling her image. Her presence in the media isn't of her concern.
 
She isn't trying to perpetuate whatever expectations others have for her, and that's why you don't understand her decisions.
 
You're looking for a strategy where there just isn't one.

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#24 Jonny Carinthia

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 12:20 PM

 
You're looking for a strategy where there just isn't one.

 

And that's sad.... She is selling herself wide under value.

Did she nothing learn from 10 years of Harry Potter?

Maybe not.


"Benutze es!" = "Use it!"

„Dreams come true; without that possibility, nature would not incite us to have them.” John Updike


#25 Roberto

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 12:26 PM

Or maybe she just learned how toxic a mindset that can be for an actor.


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#26 Jonny Carinthia

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 12:36 PM

But I hope that she will never in the future whine in an interview about her missed chances....

 

I think she will be regarded as an actress, then, for heavens sake, she should select her roles like one....

 

And, thank heaven, not every actor/actress avoids a little bit of poison to sell themselfs for the right price....


"Benutze es!" = "Use it!"

„Dreams come true; without that possibility, nature would not incite us to have them.” John Updike


#27 ling

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 01:34 PM

But I hope that she will never in the future whine in an interview about her missed chances....

 

That's just LIFE though, you know? Right now she wants to do things a certain way and that's fine. In the future she may or may not regret those decisions and that's fine. As far as I can tell, it's not hurting anybody, so it shouldn't be a concern. And honestly, people will always have regrets, or wonder how things could have been. That's called being a human. 

 

Why do you hold Emma and Miley to different standards? You shouldn't be doing that because 1) it's none of your business, 2) they're both females trying to navigate an industry in which they will constantly struggle between the opinions of others (most of which they aren't asking for) and what's right for themselves. I find it rather gross that you find it appalling that Emma be involved in a rape joke but think that's a fine enough role for Miley. Rape shouldn't be a joke whether you're a fully clothed woman with a reputation for being a prude or if you're half naked gyrating around a stage with your tongue out... but that's a whole other discussion. Still, I think it's worth examining why you hold Emma to these ridiculous standards while belittling the decisions of other women.



#28 Jonny Carinthia

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 01:57 PM

Nobody should make a joke about rape, right. So why do you say that it is ok for Emma and not for Miley. Because it is exactly the other way round....

 

If Emma is non of our business, dook can close this page and this forum at once. Why should we come here in the first place if we are not allowed to talk and discuss Emma?

 

I say, that - regarding her own business - Miley (as an example) has the way better standards, aids and management then Emma will ever have. And, of course, it is Emmas decision, but, and here I use words of JK, then she is definitly not the "brightest witch of her generation".

 

Finally a private word: keep calm, ling. I am in hospital at the moment and I am learning, that high bloodpressure can lead to various unpleasent things.....

 

Have a nice Sunday.


Edited by Jonny Carinthia, 10 November 2013 - 02:02 PM.

"Benutze es!" = "Use it!"

„Dreams come true; without that possibility, nature would not incite us to have them.” John Updike


#29 ling

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 02:09 PM

Oh, I'm calm. I really just love debate, and it probably calms me more than anything. Regardless, I hope that *you* are well. Hospitals suck.

 

Firstly, though, don't put words in my mouth. Because I DO NOT think rape jokes are okay. I watched This Is The End through the critical filter that I consume most media (including this forum) and I raise PLENTY of issue with it. Yes, it made me laugh. However, the rape theme throughout made me uncomfortable and angry. As I've said, I trust Emma to make her own choices, but I did find this one to be problematic. Not as problematic as it could have been, of course. Emma's character did take the badass approach and defend herself, and the way it was presented was a misunderstanding. So, while I was not happy with the subject matter, I thought it was handled in the best way that could be expected from a film that's only purpose was for a bunch of friends to get paid to hang out and make crude jokes. Had it gone differently (i.e. the way of Jonah Hill's storyline) and Emma had agreed to do it, we'd be in a very different situation here. As it is, I'm willing to bet she realized at least some of her mistake judging by the fact that she obviously didn't finish the project, and I will begrudgingly give her the benefit of the doubt. Begrudgingly.

 

On the other hand, with Miley, I fully support the right of any woman to walk around as naked as she wants. The problem is when you combine that with a date-rape-filled song a la Robin Thicke, which... I have no words to explain how much I despise Robin Thicke. Again, these are bad choices, but overall Miley Cyrus being half naked and expressing her sexuality all the time isn't problematic... her appropriation of other races is much worse. 

 

Obviously I think it's fine to discuss Emma, but at the end of the day there are personal choices she makes that are really none of our business (like how much or how little she works) and then public choices that we should receive critically and examine (like her involvement in a rape-joke-centric role). 



#30 Jonny Carinthia

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 02:14 PM

Whow.... calm ling. 95% I agree with your last statement.

I am not ill in the sence of the word..... It's a curative stay to get me fit again after a long hot and exhausting summer.

And it is sooooo boring here.

:tongue0020:


"Benutze es!" = "Use it!"

„Dreams come true; without that possibility, nature would not incite us to have them.” John Updike


#31 ling

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 02:24 PM

I think you are under the impression that I like Emma without any thought to her actions, but the truth is I like Emma because she played Hermione and seems like someone I can vaguely relate to because of that. However, my subtle admiration for any sort of "celebrity" never has and never will cloud my judgement on the actual values I prioritize in my life, for example my extensive views on feminism, equality and society. Not to quote Perks of Being a Wallflower (the book) here, but I did read it as a pre-teen so I guess some of its lessons rubbing off on me was inevitable, but I definitely subscribe to the idea of being "a filter, not a sponge" when it comes to the consumption of media.



#32 Jonny Carinthia

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 02:26 PM

I see....

 

But you know, she was not playing Hermione, she WAS Hermione......

 

And that's the point; would Hermione let herself go the way Emma does????


"Benutze es!" = "Use it!"

„Dreams come true; without that possibility, nature would not incite us to have them.” John Updike


#33 Roberto

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 02:46 PM

She's not Hermione anymore. People need to let those comparisons go.


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#34 Jonny Carinthia

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 02:48 PM

Well, I see her more as Lucy......

A true english girl.


"Benutze es!" = "Use it!"

„Dreams come true; without that possibility, nature would not incite us to have them.” John Updike


#35 Roberto

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 02:56 PM

Do you really need to categorize her like that? Can't she just be Emma?

 

If you keep on comparing her to an ideal in your head, you're just setting yourself up for a lot of frustration and disappointment.


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#36 Jonny Carinthia

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 02:58 PM

Of course she is Emma, Emma Charlotte Watson.

 

But as you said, many see her still as Hermione.

 

I met her not as Hermione, but as Lucy for the first time.

 

And Lucy (although by the book, written by Colin Clark) is a much more realistic person.....


"Benutze es!" = "Use it!"

„Dreams come true; without that possibility, nature would not incite us to have them.” John Updike


#37 ling

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 03:01 PM

I see....

 

But you know, she was not playing Hermione, she WAS Hermione......

 

And that's the point; would Hermione let herself go the way Emma does????

 

Well... no she's NOT Hermione. Hermione is fictional. Emma is a real person and people change.



#38 Jonny Carinthia

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 03:05 PM

Ok, then JK Rowling took a lot of Emma in her fictional character...

 

And she recognised this immediatly during the auditions.

 

That's why Emma got the part.


"Benutze es!" = "Use it!"

„Dreams come true; without that possibility, nature would not incite us to have them.” John Updike


#39 Roberto

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 03:42 PM

I met her not as Hermione, but as Lucy for the first time.

 

And Lucy (although by the book, written by Colin Clark) is a much more realistic person.....

 

These comparisons are guaranteeing that you will be constantly disappointed.

 

A character in a book has their entire personality explained for you in text. People don't work like that.

 

No person can live up to the life of a fictional character. They would be foolish to even try.


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#40 ling

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 04:13 PM

Ok, then JK Rowling took a lot of Emma in her fictional character...

 

And she recognised this immediatly during the auditions.

 

That's why Emma got the part.

 

When she was NINE.

 

God help any of us who are still the person we were when we were 9. I'm not the person I was when I was 20. Hell, I'm not the person I was when I was 24. I change and grow every day of my life, like a normal person.

 

Even HERMIONE GRANGER were she a real person would be a lot different today. In fact, one of the most interesting things about Hermione, which makes her a nuanced and relatable character, is that she is a stubborn and flawed teenager who eventually becomes a bit more self aware and less self-centred, which morphs her into a stronger character. The change is gradual, but it's there, and over time her identity shifts from being an annoying know-it-all to a compassionate adult. Emma's identity has shifted from being that same prococious child archetype into...???? Whatever she WANTS to be. But she is not Hermione. She has not had the same experiences as Hermione, she likely doesn't have identical values to Hermione, and her personality is not that of Hermione.






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