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#1 130671

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 05:00 PM

So what do you think? A sovereign state for the palestinians? Pro or contra? Aside from the fact that it will be vetoed by the US....how can the UN not be the place to plead for that? Who thinks the occupied should petition the occupants to get their own state....in fair negotiations? (this even sounds....wrong...to me)

#2 Arie

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 07:26 PM

I am scared to post in this section because I know I will be blasted since I have been in the past on this forum. But, I am doing it anyway.

I am Jewish and a Zionist. I travel to Israel all the time, I own property there. I have lived there full time in the past. I have tons of family and friends who live there and know many people in the army.

I do agree with the idea of a Palestinian state, BUT its not going to change anything. Its just going to cause Israel to give up more land. Its going to cause more fights and danger. As long as these people are allowing themselves to be ruled by terrorist organizations I will NEVER support it. Even Obama said a similar thing months ago when the issue first came up. Get terrorist organizations out of the picture, then we can talk. Otherwise, it just going to destroy Israel. People don't even realize whats STILL going on there. Gaza still send missiles over EVERYDAY! That is not something I will support. The only way I am going to support this is if the terrorism stops.

Oh G-D I hope I don't get yelled at now like I have in the past....

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#3 Álmok

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 07:43 PM

First of course I'll support the idea of a Palestinian state because it's their right and no one can deny this, those people need their own state (in their country Lolz) Plus just to mention if u back of the time 80yearz and check the world map you will find Palestine is there while "Israel" is not so in this case all the world should accept this idea cuz it's their right again!

The fight between Palestine and "Israel" will stop if the US admitted of the Palestinian state and support this because without the admit from the US first I guess nothing will change even if the other countries admitted of it.

Edited by Dreamzy, 23 September 2011 - 07:44 PM.


 


#4 Arie

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 08:23 PM

I re-thought my post and decided to just leave it at my one post and not get into a debate. I am to nervous lol. I had a really bad experience once debating this topic.

Edited by Arie, 23 September 2011 - 08:37 PM.

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#5 Álmok

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 08:40 PM

Dear when I was studying in the primary school there was Palestine there was no "Israel" even that thing is not from 10yearz!

Palestinians people attack Israel cuz Israel did take all their rights,there is some Palestinians have the "Israelian" nationality but they don't have the full rights as others "Israeli" they are just trying to get their rights cuz a lot of promises did not take serious between the two countries so of course everything will be dangerous if they didnt get their own rights as any other citizen.

Lolz! "Israel" from where did get their lands? And don't u see something wrong of a Jewish state in the Arab world even their language is not Arabic :mellow: all the countries around palestine are Arabian countries and the mother language there is Arabic that's why that area it's called "the Arab world"


 


#6 DarkLord

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 08:49 PM

Dear when I was studying in the primary school there was Palestine there was no "Israel" even that thing is not from 10yearz!

Palestinians people attack Israel cuz Israel did take all their rights,there is some Palestinians have the "Israelian" nationality but they don't have the full rights as others "Israeli" they are just trying to get their rights cuz a lot of promises did not take serious between the two countries so of course everything will be dangerous if they didnt get their own rights as any other citizen.

Lolz! "Israel" from where did get their lands? And don't u see something wrong of a Jewish state in the Arab world even their language is not Arabic :mellow: all the countries around palestine are Arabian countries and the mother language there is Arabic that's why that area it's called "the Arab world"


^ i totally agree with that.

we all know that the usa doesn't support a Palestinian country. therefore the Palestinians won't get their own country as long as the usa is a permanent member of the un security council because all permanent members have the power to veto any substantive resolution.

Edited by DarkLord, 23 September 2011 - 08:50 PM.


#7 Álmok

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 08:59 PM

^ i totally agree with that.

we all know that the usa doesn't support a Palestinian country. therefore the Palestinians won't get their own country as long as the usa is a permanent member of the un security council because all permanent members have the power to veto any substantive resolution.


Exactly! :rolleyes:


 


#8 Arie

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 09:22 PM

So pretty much I have to fight because now I can't be left alone *sigh* I really do not want to have to do this.

Dear when I was studying in the primary school there was Palestine there was no "Israel" even that thing is not from 10yearz!


Well, that may be true for where you live and other Arab countrys. But, you may want to check with the rest of the world. Because if there were a Palestinian state why would this even be an issue? And, ten years ago? Seriously? Israel has been a recognized state for over 60! So I don't really understand why you would be learning that 10 years ago...

Palestinians people attack Israel cuz Israel did take all their rights,there is some Palestinians have the "Israelian" nationality but they don't have the full rights as others "Israeli" they are just trying to get their rights cuz a lot of promises did not take serious between the two countries so of course everything will be dangerous if they didnt get their own rights as any other citizen.


Why do they need to kick us out in order to do that? I have to give up where I live so that the Palestinians can have rights? Believe me. I am all for equality. It makes me upset that they don't have the same rights!! But, that doesn't make me want to kill someone. Attacking Israel is not an answer... it just causes wars. We did try giving up land. Ever hear of Gaza? And, guess what? Gaza is still attack Israel ever single day. I know this because my BF lives 5 Kilometers from Gaza. He has 15 seconds to run to a shelter... and this happens atleast twice a day. Even though they are currently supposed to be having a cease fire. How can I trust a people that just wants ti fight? I would love for there to be a 2 state solution. But, aslong as there are terrorists involved it wont happen.


Lolz! "Israel" from where did get their lands? And don't u see something wrong of a Jewish state in the Arab world even their language is not Arabic :mellow: all the countries around palestine are Arabian countries and the mother language there is Arabic that's why that area it's called "the Arab world"


Oh I don't know you might just want to check History or a bible. And, if you are going to debate act like and adult. "lolz"? Really, your going to make fun of me instead of writing a mature response? No I don't see anything wrong with a Jewish state. We allow any Arab into Israel. But, whens the last time a Jew has been allowed into Dubai? Iran? Syria? News flash... they don't let us in! So, if Israel needs to change then so does evrey single Arab state. I am just talking about equality here.
Why would Israel's language need to be Arabic? Its not an Arab state! Exactly, you the Arabs have ALL the bordering countrys. Why isn't that enough? Israel has given them land so many times... and you know what happens? More bombs... So once again, nothing is going to change as long as terrorism exists.

Also, the fact that you keep writing "Israel" is extremely offensive, degrading, and politically incorrect. You don't see me needing to write "Palestine". If you are going to debate about this, be mature.

And, lastly, I am not saying I don't support a Palestinian state. I don't support anyone who associates with Terrorists and thats who is running the Arab world. I would be happy to have a two state solution and peace. The terrorists don't really understand the definition of peace though...

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#9 Álmok

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 09:59 PM

Dear you know how did "Israel" become a country? By encourage the Jewish immigration to Palestine and under The leadership Of a Jewish state originally, and see how ironic the only country admitted of the "israeli state" is the US when it's came at first and when the palestinians start defense about their rights and making promises with the "Zionist" non of these promises did take serious then the "people" start saying the "Palestinians terrorists attack "Israel" but in truth they were attack Israel cuz they did notice all their rights are gone and the Jewish immigration did increase in Palestine and some of their lands did taken.

And to why some Arabian countries don't allow any "Israeli" in their state....I totally support this plus it's the country law no one can argue in this!
Even if u compare between your language and Arabic Lolz your language is Arabic but upside-down!

In the end US have to Admit of the "Palestinian state" and give them their Rights to stop this war.


 


#10 130671

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 10:16 PM

One thing is for sure - if the palestinians go on "negotiating" with Israel like they have done for the last 20 years, there will soon be nothing left to negotiate over because the Israelis will have annexed all land of any worth.
The gains of this strategy outweigh by far the losses caused by terrorist activity of any kind in the eyes of the israeli government I think.

#11 Arie

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 10:20 PM

Dear you know how did "Israel" become a country? By encourage the Jewish immigration to Palestine and under The leadership Of a Jewish state originally, and see how ironic the only country admitted of the "israeli state" is the US when it's came at first and when the palestinians start defense about their rights and making promises with the "Zionist" non of these promises did take serious then the "people" start saying the "Palestinians terrorists attack "Israel" but in truth they were attack Israel cuz they did notice all their rights are gone and the Jewish immigration did increase in Palestine and some of their lands did taken.

And to why some Arabian countries don't allow any "Israeli" in their state....I totally support this plus it's the country law no one can argue in this!
Even if u compare between your language and Arabic Lolz your language is Arabic but upside-down!

In the end US have to Admit of the "Palestinian state" and give them their Rights to stop this war.


Seriously? You can't figure out how to right a mature response? Do not call me dear. And I find your use of "lolz" very belittling. Be mature, its Israel... no quotation marks needed.

Dear you know how did "Israel" become a country? By encourage the Jewish immigration to Palestine and under The leadership Of a Jewish state originally, and see how ironic the only country admitted of the "israeli state" is the US when it's came at first and when the palestinians start defense about their rights and making promises with the "Zionist" non of these promises did take serious then the "people" start saying the "Palestinians terrorists attack "Israel" but in truth they were attack Israel cuz they did notice all their rights are gone and the Jewish immigration did increase in Palestine and some of their lands did taken.


Seriously? That's what they teach in your country?
Israel has ALWAYS been a state. Ever heard of the Bible? Many different religions follow it. Actually, every state was allowed into Israel not just the US. As apposed to every Arab country. "People"? Seriously? So by your use of quotation marks you are insinuating that Israelis are not people?! So let me get this straight... the Arab country's are allowed to kill and destroy because of their rights? You support this violence? I am all for Palestinian rights but why does it have to be achieved through death and destruction?

And to why some Arabian countries don't allow any "Israeli" in their state....I totally support this plus it's the country law no one can argue in this!
Even if u compare between your language and Arabic Lolz your language is Arabic but upside-down!


I don't care if its law. I am allowed to argue it because I live in a FREE state. Unlike the Arab World were you will be killed for any little ounce of disagreement. Why do you support this idea? Besides that fact that its the law. How is it fair that any Arab can come into Israel, but no Israelis can go into most Arab states? How is that equal? How is that okay? We are not allowed a state, but there Arabs are allowed a plethora and forbid Israelis or Jews to enter their states? I don't understand how anyone could support that idea.

Are you serious? Hebrew is an ancient language that has been around for CENTURIES. It was created before Arabic. You really need to brush up on your History. Besides, why does it matter weather or not Israelis speak Hebrew? Does the entire world need to speak Arabic?

In the end US have to Admit of the "Palestinian state" and give them their Rights to stop this war.


First off, the US isn't the decider. That is not how the UN works. You might want to learn a little bit more about how UN voting works. And, most country's have already made it perfectly clear that they will not support this idea as long as terrorist organizations exist. No one should be supporting terrorism, and most never will. Even if by some miracle this did get passed, the war didn't end. Terrorism would still exist.


One thing is for sure - if the palestinians go on "negotiating" with Israel like they have done for the last 20 years, there will soon be nothing left to negotiate over because the Israelis will have annexed all land of any worth.
The gains of this strategy outweigh by far the losses caused by terrorist activity of any kind in the eyes of the israeli government I think.


I agree, there is nothing left to give yet they still keep fighting for more and more land. How is that fair? I agree with a two state solution, they want it all.
I am not sure if I understand your second point correctly. But, assuming I am lol. Terrorism is still a huge issue in Israel. The world doesn't realize this because it doesn't get reported. There are still a ton of attacks. Thank G-D the army is amazing and they are able to stop a lot of the attempts. But, missiles still fly from Gaza everyday. There are still bombing and shooting, even though they have decreased drastically. With this strategy there will just be more terrorism and closer.

Edited by Arie, 23 September 2011 - 10:25 PM.

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#12 Álmok

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 10:28 PM

"Dear" maybe I don't have enough knowledge about the "history" but I know the truth very well and yea I have ma beliefs and you have "your own beliefs" and we both don't want to change our beliefs so whatever you think of as "Zionist" and sorry I don't believe of "your beliefs" :rolleyes:

And I'm out from this Topic and will not change ma opinion :D

Edited by Dreamzy, 23 September 2011 - 10:29 PM.


 


#13 Arie

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 10:35 PM

"Dear" maybe I don't have enough knowledge about the "history" but I know the truth very well and yea I have ma beliefs and you have "your own beliefs" and we both don't want to change our beliefs so whatever you think of as "Zionist" and sorry I don't believe of "your beliefs" :rolleyes:

And I'm out from this Topic and will not change ma opinion :D


I am not trying to change anyone's beliefs I am just writing my own. If you read my posts you would see that we do have a lot of similar views. But, if you can't handle a mature debate I understand. However, if this is something you strongly believe in you might want to actually know what you are talking about. I am open to change, but not when it involves terrorism which you obviously support. No need to apologize I have know interest in making other believe what I believe.

Oh and just for your future knowledge. Next time you want make fun of the Hebrew language you might want some background. Hebrew was created in 10 BCE and Arabic didn't pop up until the 8th or 6th. Now, BCE works downward, larger number are earlier. As opposed to AD which works up from 1 and so on.

But, I do have a problem with your attitude. I respected you and debated maturely. I did not belittle you in anyway. However, you decided to make fun of me with your use of quotation marks, "lolz", and eyerolls. That sort of behavior is not exactly accepted on this forum. Normally, I would report your post. But, instead I am going to respect you. Then maybe you will learn how to respect other people's opinions in return.

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#14 Álmok

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 10:53 PM

Are you serious? Using "Lolz" and rolleyes is annoying to you? Looooolz
I like to use "Lolz" and :rolleyes: and yea do report ma posts just cuz I use "Lolz" and :rolleyes:

:icontwisted8pz:


 


#15 Arie

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 11:05 PM

Please stay on topic. If you have other things you wish to convey to me you can PM me or comment on my wall.

Back to the topic please!

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#16 130671

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 11:19 PM

Well I was expecting you to post here ofc Arie....but with the only other poster being from the arabic world, I seem to have recreated the exact stalemate of palestine talks en miniature....<_<

#17 Arie

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 11:36 PM

Well I was expecting you to post here ofc Arie....but with the only other poster being from the arabic world, I seem to have recreated the exact stalemate of palestine talks en miniature....<_<


Hahaha pretty much. But, debate on these issues is important! Don't feel as if you did anything bad! I just wish more people had an opinion or cared.

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#18 Emmas Friend

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 11:36 PM

Looking at this from an independent position, I can see both sides have a good arguement for their cause. I also agree there should be a Palestinian State, and Israeli State. How can this be achieved, there is no easy answer. But I notice in the posts above, constant references to the past. Yes, I agree that is part of your heritage, but you must always look to the future.
If future generations are to live in peace together, then something needs to be done now. Israel must accept that there should be a Palestinian State, and Palestine must denounce terrorism.
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#19 Rena

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 12:54 AM

ok, so i am palestinian and i defiantley think we have the right to have our own country.
i dont think any one knows what its like living in palestine where we have no rights
our side is basically controlled by the jewish. they can come and go anytime they please while if we stepped a foot in their territory then we would probably be arrested.
also, if i didnt have a american passport i basically wouldnt be able to do anything. i wouldnt be able to get into jerusalem. my own family that lives there cant even go inside their own mosque in jerusalem.

i dont mean any disrespcet to anyone here but i think its time we were free
For the moon never beams without bringing me dreams
Of the beautiful Annabel Lee;
And the stars never rise but I feel the bright eyes
Of the beautiful Annabel Lee;
And so, all the night-tide, I lie down by the side
Of my darling- my darling- my life and my bride,
In the sepulchre there by the sea,
In her tomb by the sounding sea.

#20 histor

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 06:52 AM

I have pretty much the same opinion as Arie... I don't have a problem with a Palestinian state as long as the Palstinians aren't ruled by terrorists, unfortunately some of them are...




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