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#1 Monkey Cartwheels

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 11:17 AM

This is a thread where you can ask any question to do with any sorta religion or what ever.
Could be a question about why some people dont swear to why do you believe this or that, what ever.

My question is more for the Christians

What bible verses talk about choosing sin over God?

I am wanting to make a small 5 min dramatic film about a person who when faced with a decision to choose to follow a man who looks scary or a path that leads away from the man.
The idea behind it is that we can either choose to follow the uncertain and scary path of God or to run from him and end up getting hurt.
However I cant find any verses that touch on when we turn from God and run.
Any ideas?

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#2 Karen

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 08:06 PM

Great question Joe, I'm not an expert at the Bible but I looked it up and there doesn't seem to be verses that talk about choosing sin over God, but choosing God over sin.

Romans 11:22-23 talks about branches in an olive tree and how some of them are broken off: "Note then the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in His kindness. Otherwise you will be cut off. And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.

Matthew 10:22 "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."

Here's the link if you want to see where I got the stuff: http://www.jesusisth...t/ONCESAVED.htm

So it seems to me that the verses that are in the Bible are about being saved and about coming back to God after turning away. So yeah, that's just what I found, but I am no scholar. :D I hope that helped! And great thread, Joe. :)
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#3 Monkey Cartwheels

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 11:18 AM

Thanks Karen!
Yeah, I'd had a look around and couldn't find much but didn't know if I was just wording it wrong...

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#4 Karen

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 06:42 PM

Sure, no problem Joe. Alright, I also have a question for the Christians out there: what do you think are crucial questions we as Christians have to know how to answer? You know, the questions that people love to ask in order to stump us. I'll give a few:

-why do bad things happen to good people?
-you can't SEE God, how do you know He's there?
-why is God a He?
-why did the Holocaust happen then?

These are just a few I've come across. How do we answer them in an understandable way? I have some ideas but I want to hear others' first. What are some that you guys have come across? This doesn't just have to be for Christianity, either.
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#5 Kim.

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 08:37 AM

This is a thread where you can ask any question to do with any sorta religion or what ever.
Could be a question about why some people dont swear to why do you believe this or that, what ever.

My question is more for the Christians

What bible verses talk about choosing sin over God?

I am wanting to make a small 5 min dramatic film about a person who when faced with a decision to choose to follow a man who looks scary or a path that leads away from the man.
The idea behind it is that we can either choose to follow the uncertain and scary path of God or to run from him and end up getting hurt.
However I cant find any verses that touch on when we turn from God and run.
Any ideas?


I have so many own examples in my personal life where, in the past, I had turned away from God and "ran" and what I received in return was what I had already expected to happen. If I expected that a bad thing would happen, it would, simply because God gives to us whatever is on our minds (and whatever it is we may ask of Him).

However, I was reading my Bible App on my phone on the bus yesterday. I, actually, just downloaded the Spanish Bible and the International Standard Version (common English)--both free.

In the Book of Romans--what Karen quotes--the Apostle Paul writes a letter (or epistle) to the Romans, whom he will visit and profess the gospel of God, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus to. His letter is different than those to the Greeks (Corinthians), in that the Greeks largely followed multi-theistic culture and were considered on a different stature than the Romans. Whereas Paul argues the weight that "spiritual gifts" (in 1 Corinthians) and the emotional bearing it brings to access the Holy Spirit holds, he opens the letter to the Romans in a different light: he offers the difference of consequence between adhering as much as possible to the path of God (in Righteousness) and leaving that path, astray, and abiding by creation's "law" instead of the law of the Creator, God.

Romans 1:18-25

(International Standard Version)
"For God's wrath is being revealed from heaven against all the ungodliness and wickedness of those who in their wickedness suppress the truth. 18
For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God himself has made it plain to them. 19
For since the creation of the world God's invisible attributes--his eternal power and divine nature--have been understood and observed by what he made, so that people are without excuse. 20
For although they know God, they neither glorified him as a God nor gave thanks to him. 21
Instead, their thoughts turned to worthless things, and their senseless darkened. 22
Though claiming to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images that looked like mortal human beings, birds, four-footed animals, and reptiles. 23
For this reason, God delivered them to sexual impurity as they followed the lusts of their hearts and disohonored their bodies with one another. 24
They exchanged God's truth for a lie and worshipped and served the ceation rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 25"


Comparison

(New King James Version)
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 18
Because what may be known for God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 19
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 20
Because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 21
Professing to be wise, they became fools, 22
And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. 23
Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 24
Who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 25"


Sure, no problem Joe. Alright, I also have a question for the Christians out there: what do you think are crucial questions we as Christians have to know how to answer? You know, the questions that people love to ask in order to stump us. I'll give a few:

-why do bad things happen to good people?
-you can't SEE God, how do you know He's there?


These are just a few I've come across. How do we answer them in an understandable way?


I think I can answer both of these questions together, which is why I sort of lumped Karen's questions together with my Bible excerpts from Book of Romans for Joe. I do like Karen's choice of quotes (about the olive tree in Romans Ch. 11 and the quote of salvation from endurance through hardship in Matthew Ch. 10, but I feel that the text--overall--is a balance of both sin and righteousness. When God created Man and Woman in the Garden of Eden, but were cast away and tied to the Earth because of being led by the serpent's deceit and eating the foribidden fruit, Man and Woman placed sin over God in that instance. It even happened in the Beginning.

Granted, had that not happened, the human race might've not existed (talking from strictly a Biblical standpoint). It is repeated throughout Genesis, also, that nearly everything God made in the days of creation was "Good". For Adam and Eve to be exiled from the Garden of Eden, an inherently "Good" place, and banished to experience hardship on earth--to experience God's wrath and existence--something "bad" had to happen to them...something resulting from accepting to be led away from God's instructions or callings. Had they not "suppressed" God's "truth" with "unrighteousness" by following the serpent's "lie", Adam and Eve would not have manifested the true scope of God. There needs to be both good and bad. Since that very day, humans were cast and born into sin.

The idea I get when I re-read the excerpt from the Book of Romans is that we have everything we need to not doubt God's existence. The question really is, how do you know that God is NOT there? Although I sometimes disagree with what Paul the Apostle has written (i.e.: the "sexual impurity" part, which is a different version of the Bible, and his views on homosexuality and faith. I favor NKJV more out of the two...), I really like his image in "manifest(ation)". He describes that what is brought about (manifested) in our belief in God is what we already "know" God to be. God "shows" to us what we know, but if we think we are "wise" enough to know all of God's power, and we neither "thank" Him nor follow Him, we will have our "hearts darkened", or will be given over to ignorance, darkness, blindness--away from the light, or revelation, or understanding...all of which would give us easy acknowledgment of God's existence.

The fact that God is not a human form (Jesus is likened to be God being birthed onto earth through human form, but was not purely God) is the most intriguing enigma to ever exist. Paul ventures to argue, in Romans 1:18-25, that humans "exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images that looked like mortal human beings, birds, four-footed animals, and reptiles" (ISV). The original text was written 2,000+ years ago? There's something still true that echoes today: those "people who love to ask in order to stump" faith (of whatever religion) cannot fathom a God that is at once there but is otherwise physically "invisible". In order for most people now to prove something, it is necessary for them to have something physically tangible--an image. We celebrate Christmas and the birth of Jesus Christ, who save(d/s) us from sin and have grown with a specific image in mind of Jesus. Have we actually discovered what he physically looked like--his face, eyes, nose, mouth, stature? Not entirely.

For me, I know God is with me when I feel an intense calm and relief. This is coming from a person who is always up and going and focused on one thing or another; who is often up for more than 19 hours a day, and who used to have intense anxiety and depression. There's something that changes in me, and an inner calm envelopes me. These things are tangible for me only because I can experience them, but they aren't purely physical. When something happens in my life that is either good or bad, God is behind it. And when an event occurs in which aspects are aligned in such a way and no other party knew about each other previously, it is God. He is there.

Am I always fervent about it? No. He comes and goes, when I allow Him to dominate my thoughts and when I don't. I know I sound crazy, but for me to be professing my faith like this has taken a lot of growth as a person.
----
The smaller quote I want to share is similar in theme to the olive tree quote Karen shared, about both God's severity and kindness.

Romans 2:6-8
Paul, talks here about the fact that no matter what side you reside on--"good" or "evil"--God judges everyone. You do not even have to reside on a side; most of us are guilty of both parts that Paul writes:


(International Standard Version)
"For he [God] will repay everyone according to what that person has done:6
Eternal life to those who strive for glory, honor, and immorality by patiently doing good; 7
but wrath and fury for those who in their selfish pride refuse to believe the truth and practice wickedness instead. 8"

Comparison



(New King James Version)
"Who 'will render to each one according to his deeds'; 6
Eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immorality; 7
But those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath.... 8"


I honestly do not think it's completely possible to be "patient" and "seek glory, honor, and immorality" in every waking moment. At one point or another, we will be on the receiving end of God's "wrath", whether to a large degree or small. But, like Karen's suggestion, once we choose God's path (whatever that path may be that we internally feel propelled to do) over sin (being led away from honor, immorality, etc.) we may be able to acknowledge God's presence more. It just occurs through a "continuance"--a process, an effort to manifest.

The insistance in both excerpts that man can get "hurt" from "running away" is there; and if you restructure it, you can find plenty of biblical stories in the Bible that show it. I have leaned further than ever before towards Karen's idea of turning toward God for comfort in the places we, as a people, least expect. But, there is definitely a note as to God's "wrath" and the insistance in some places in the Bible to fear God, so that we stay on the path of truth.
---
Here's a question that I'm making up that someone might ask:
"Why can God save _____ person? Aren't we all condemned? And he/she most of all? Afterall, doesn't the Bible say homosexuality, adultery, indulgence (alcohol, drugs, etc.), etc., etc. is a sin?"

Done. SORRY FOR THE LONG POST. I hope my excerpts helped Joe! And, I wanted to tackle Karen's question >:\, which was HARD. Whew.
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#6 Karen

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 01:54 AM

This was a great post, Kim! Not sure really quite where to start to respond actually, lol. Something caught my eye: That you said we have everything we need NOT to doubt God's existence. :) I liked that a lot! It can be hard for some people, to accept things without seeing them. I was reading somewhere or heard a sermon, I forget which, that we've been taught from a young age not to trust people, stranger danger, and to doubt things. This is a really hard attitude to get rid of. Everything is suspicious...so what do people think when they hear "there's a God, and He's really awesome, and He'll be with you forever!" people go "umm no..where is He? I can't see Him. It sounds to good to be true, anyway". It's really, really hard for people to just accept things without seeing them or touching them or what have you.

I know I have a lot to work on with God, and I have my doubts too. However, I know now that The Enemy will do anything to get me to be apathetic about God or doubt. When stuff bothers me now, I just say God, IDK what's bothering me, but I'm sure you do. So please let me know what it is so I can give it up to you. That helps me A LOT. It's important to be refreshed spiritually with God. Sometimes I just need massive alone time with Him. I always feel so much better after that!! When things get really overwhelming, I turn to God. I encourage all of you to do that instead of turn away, which is very tempting and sometimes seems like the easier choice.
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#7 Monkey Cartwheels

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 12:10 PM

Not a question but what ever.

So I was watching that show called "How the universe works" on Discovery Channel the other day.
They were talking about Galaxies and Galaxy Filaments.

This is a Galaxy Filament
Posted Image
Its made up of millions and millions of Galaxies.

Which kinda seems sorta irrelevant. But when you think that there are millions and millions of planets in this
Posted Image

I start to feel pretty small.
To think that Earth is just 1 out of 1,000,000+ in our Galaxy, and our Galaxy is just 1 out of 1,000,000+ in a Galaxy Filament, its just astounding!

You may be asking "But Jooooooe" what does that have to do with anything?"

WELL! As I was watching it I was overwhelmed by the power of God, That we are living in the midst of the most largest thing we can comprehend and more!
And to be honest, there was an element of fear inside me too! The fear of what God can do.
People try to use the universe to disprove God but I say that it is the most beautiful testament to God ever designed!

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#8 Karen

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 03:36 PM

Not a question but what ever.

So I was watching that show called "How the universe works" on Discovery Channel the other day.
They were talking about Galaxies and Galaxy Filaments.

This is a Galaxy Filament
Posted Image
Its made up of millions and millions of Galaxies.

Which kinda seems sorta irrelevant. But when you think that there are millions and millions of planets in this
Posted Image

I start to feel pretty small.
To think that Earth is just 1 out of 1,000,000+ in our Galaxy, and our Galaxy is just 1 out of 1,000,000+ in a Galaxy Filament, its just astounding!

You may be asking "But Jooooooe" what does that have to do with anything?"

WELL! As I was watching it I was overwhelmed by the power of God, That we are living in the midst of the most largest thing we can comprehend and more!
And to be honest, there was an element of fear inside me too! The fear of what God can do.
People try to use the universe to disprove God but I say that it is the most beautiful testament to God ever designed!


I completely agree!! I totally see how this relates to God. might not be a question or anything, but it's still a great observation. Actually, it's funny that you posted this because in a couple weeks I'd like to bring the peeps in my Bible study up to the observatory at my school. I think it's really important to get an idea for what infinity really is, and how small we really are. It is SO important, in my opinion, to realize that we are NOT the center of our universe and that we are tiny compared to the wonders of God.

I think that space is amazing, absolutely incredible, and when I really get to thinking about it, my mind is blown. Thanks for posting Joe! I completely agree with everything you said! Funny how we're working on the same wavelength lol
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#9 Arie

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 03:55 PM

Sure, no problem Joe. Alright, I also have a question for the Christians out there: what do you think are crucial questions we as Christians have to know how to answer? You know, the questions that people love to ask in order to stump us. I'll give a few:

-why do bad things happen to good people?
-you can't SEE God, how do you know He's there?
-why is God a He?
-why did the Holocaust happen then?

These are just a few I've come across. How do we answer them in an understandable way? I have some ideas but I want to hear others' first. What are some that you guys have come across? This doesn't just have to be for Christianity, either.


Sorry if I am barging in here since I am not Christian I didn't know if I was allowed to answer these or not. But, I figured what the heck? lol. Since I have been in religious school all my life these are all questions I have learned how to answer.

1. Are you familiar at all with Job? Well the idea in this book essentially is that Job was this really great guy. He was following all the rules, and super devoted to G-D. So what went wrong? Why did all these bad things happen? The best answer I think comes from the commentator Maimonides. Essentially he wrote that Job character flaw was the he followed G-D in blind faith. He did everything he was supposed to do, but he didn't understand it. I think basically what we can take from this is a few things. No person is perfect, and therefore no person is truly good. Bad things happen in the world. Beyond that, what bad things come from G-D and what bad things come from humans?? So many people forget that G-D created a world with natural order. Therefore, humans have free will. If a nice girl gets bullied its not because G-D is punishing her, its because someone is a bully. You have separate the two. There are times when it is harder to tell and we all find ourselves asking,"Why me?" I think what we can learn from Maimonides is that we can't just simply ask,"why is this happening to me G-D?" We have to figure it out. We have to study and then maybe you might realize there are things that you might be doing wrong. G-D gives us little clues all the time. We just have to open our eyes larger to see them.

2. Such a simple question to answer. If a tree falls in a forest, but I don't see it, does that mean it didn't fall?

3. G-D is not a he. Well Okay this is Jewish belief now so actually this might not help. As I wrote that I remembered Jesus. Okay well in Judaism we don't believe in a physical G-D. Therefore G-D is neither a she or a he. We believe over time it just became natural to use male form in grammar in reference to G-D. I am interested in how you Christians answer this though! I never even thought of it, because I was used to the answer we have. When girls would be upset by it we had a good answer. So I guess I am just asking another question lol. But, when a little girl asks her mom or teacher this, what is she told?

4. The Holocaust was not caused by G-D it was caused by human beings with free will. To suggest that it was caused by G-D sort of takes away free will. I have heard so many different answers to this question, but this is the only one that makes sense to me. We have free will. We live in a natural world. I think the more important question to ask is why did G-D turn his face away from us in our time of nee? He didn't cause it. Many people did survive, but too many didn't. What did we do to cause G-D to turn away? I wont get into this now, but I think it worth mentioning. I don't remember the exact verse or commentary on it. There is a pretty well known part in hmmmm I think Deuteronomy and a commentary on it that sort of foreshadows that something bad will happen on a certain date. That date refers to two things. The destruction of our temple which was a bit of a Holocaust itself. If you want to know why, read Lamentations. The date also can lead to a certain date of something in the Holocaust itself. Unfortunately, I don't remember it exactly even though I must have learned it at least 20 times lol. Sorry!

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#10 Karen

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 11:03 PM

Sorry if I am barging in here since I am not Christian I didn't know if I was allowed to answer these or not. But, I figured what the heck? lol. Since I have been in religious school all my life these are all questions I have learned how to answer.

1. Are you familiar at all with Job? Well the idea in this book essentially is that Job was this really great guy. He was following all the rules, and super devoted to G-D. So what went wrong? Why did all these bad things happen? The best answer I think comes from the commentator Maimonides. Essentially he wrote that Job character flaw was the he followed G-D in blind faith. He did everything he was supposed to do, but he didn't understand it. I think basically what we can take from this is a few things. No person is perfect, and therefore no person is truly good. Bad things happen in the world. Beyond that, what bad things come from G-D and what bad things come from humans?? So many people forget that G-D created a world with natural order. Therefore, humans have free will. If a nice girl gets bullied its not because G-D is punishing her, its because someone is a bully. You have separate the two. There are times when it is harder to tell and we all find ourselves asking,"Why me?" I think what we can learn from Maimonides is that we can't just simply ask,"why is this happening to me G-D?" We have to figure it out. We have to study and then maybe you might realize there are things that you might be doing wrong. G-D gives us little clues all the time. We just have to open our eyes larger to see them.

2. Such a simple question to answer. If a tree falls in a forest, but I don't see it, does that mean it didn't fall?

3. G-D is not a he. Well Okay this is Jewish belief now so actually this might not help. As I wrote that I remembered Jesus. Okay well in Judaism we don't believe in a physical G-D. Therefore G-D is neither a she or a he. We believe over time it just became natural to use male form in grammar in reference to G-D. I am interested in how you Christians answer this though! I never even thought of it, because I was used to the answer we have. When girls would be upset by it we had a good answer. So I guess I am just asking another question lol. But, when a little girl asks her mom or teacher this, what is she told?

4. The Holocaust was not caused by G-D it was caused by human beings with free will. To suggest that it was caused by G-D sort of takes away free will. I have heard so many different answers to this question, but this is the only one that makes sense to me. We have free will. We live in a natural world. I think the more important question to ask is why did G-D turn his face away from us in our time of nee? He didn't cause it. Many people did survive, but too many didn't. What did we do to cause G-D to turn away? I wont get into this now, but I think it worth mentioning. I don't remember the exact verse or commentary on it. There is a pretty well known part in hmmmm I think Deuteronomy and a commentary on it that sort of foreshadows that something bad will happen on a certain date. That date refers to two things. The destruction of our temple which was a bit of a Holocaust itself. If you want to know why, read Lamentations. The date also can lead to a certain date of something in the Holocaust itself. Unfortunately, I don't remember it exactly even though I must have learned it at least 20 times lol. Sorry!


I love your answers to these questions Arie! I agree 100% with everything you say, especially about separating free will from God. A lot of people think that these are the same things, and they use that as the excuse that God is wrathful, vengant, distant when in fact it is the PEOPLE that are doing these things, NOT God.

Here's a really cool video: http://http://www.yo...feature=related
It shows what God is vs. our perception.

As for referring to God as male, I also agree that He (She...it...) doesn't have a gender. We can't define God like that, He is a force way bigger than we can ever imagine, He's not a guy in a white robe looking down on us, pointing His finger. As for why the description became a He, I hadn't thought of it really, but I like that you said it was just a natural progression of grammar. It probably was. Also, I think a lot of people like the idea of a father looking down on them, as a guiding figure. In my case, I never had a dad so it's nice for me to think of God as the ultimate father.
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#11 Arie

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 04:24 AM

I love your answers to these questions Arie! I agree 100% with everything you say, especially about separating free will from God. A lot of people think that these are the same things, and they use that as the excuse that God is wrathful, vengant, distant when in fact it is the PEOPLE that are doing these things, NOT God.

Here's a really cool video: http://http://www.yo...feature=related
It shows what God is vs. our perception.

As for referring to God as male, I also agree that He (She...it...) doesn't have a gender. We can't define God like that, He is a force way bigger than we can ever imagine, He's not a guy in a white robe looking down on us, pointing His finger. As for why the description became a He, I hadn't thought of it really, but I like that you said it was just a natural progression of grammar. It probably was. Also, I think a lot of people like the idea of a father looking down on them, as a guiding figure. In my case, I never had a dad so it's nice for me to think of God as the ultimate father.


Thanks! I am glad you enjoyed them! When you remember that we as humans have free will certain things become a lot clearer. At least, that was always my experience. For sure, I don't believe in an evil G-D. That's what I always say to those people. I find that many of the people who talk about G-D in that way are religious. Whenever I speak with people who believe that I can't help feeling so sorry for them that they thing G-D is like that. I believe there are times when G-D has a big hand in things. But, the fact of the matter is a gun doesn't shoot people, people shoot people. Have you ever heard that before? Its not the best metaphor, but it popped into my head lol.

That was a very cute, little video. A nice way to visualize. I often actually think about that, how my perception is blurry. Its something that brought me back to being religious when I started to stray. The idea that I am not supposed to understand everything, but there is something much bigger then me that has a plan. I take comfort in the idea that the world is supposed to be a little blurry. Not just for me, but for everyone. We are all supposed to face challenges. That idea makes me feel less alone.

My question really is then how do you handle the Jesus aspect? Meaning, Jesus is G-D for Christians and Jesus was male. So does it ever come up why a son and not a daughter? Why this actual male character? What is the answer given to that? I am just interested. I never thought about it till now because I never think of Jesus lol. Agree with you about having that father figure. But, I think most people would argue that it would be just as powerful to have a motherly figure. I am the opposite of you. I have grown up without a mother, and I can imagine it bringing comfort to have that. Of course I don't usually think of G-D as either gender at all. Rather just a parent figure.

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#12 Majestic122

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 11:30 PM

2. Such a simple question to answer. If a tree falls in a forest, but I don't see it, does that mean it didn't fall?

Good point. But the fallen tree is observable, whilst God isn't. That's what faith is all about, right? If a tree has fallen in a forest, but nobody has observed the fallen tree, you can't say for sure it fell, but you can believe it fell. Believing in a God I feel is quite comparable to this analogy.
I have a couple of questions. I don't want to be nasty with these, I am merely interested to see how these questions are answered, as they are seemingly contrary to beliefs, yet often supported.
Question number one is for anyone who believes in a benevolent, all-powerful, omniscient God. Why does evil persist? If God is benevolent, all-powerful and omniscient, then why does he allow unnecessary evil to exist when he could prevent the suffering that came forth from those acts?
Secondly, for the creationists among us. How does evolution and the evidence on evolution fit in with creationism? The two don't seem to be able to coexist, because its ideas are so radically different.
I also understand that some people believe the Earth is about 10000 years old. I am interested to see whether there are supporters of that particular view on this forum and if so, how they would explain the existance of anything over 10000 years ago, for example galaxies hundreds of thousands of lightyears away from us.

#13 Will

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 12:55 AM

Secondly, for the creationists among us. How does evolution and the evidence on evolution fit in with creationism? The two don't seem to be able to coexist, because its ideas are so radically different.
I also understand that some people believe the Earth is about 10000 years old. I am interested to see whether there are supporters of that particular view on this forum and if so, how they would explain the existance of anything over 10000 years ago, for example galaxies hundreds of thousands of lightyears away from us.

First, Creationism and evolution aren't so unrelated to each other as people might think. The evolution is a set of changes or transformations through time that originated various forms of life, however, it does not explain how the universe began. Anyway, the evolution theory explains that life began in the oceans, so does the Bible:

"And God said, 'Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures...'" - Genesis 1:20

Being said this, I believe God made all living creatures, but we can't be sure how He did it. Maybe the Evolution is kind of right, I say "kind of" because it was given by people who denied the existence of God, and of course, they took God out from their "equations". Now, God made us, the human being, as special creatures, with His own hands. Therefore, I don't think we are products of evolution.

Second, some people believe Earth is about 10000 years old because the Bible says God made everything in seven days, and they take those days as a day of 24 hours, whereas the time of God is different since He is "out of time".


#14 Arie

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 04:06 AM

Good point. But the fallen tree is observable, whilst God isn't. That's what faith is all about, right? If a tree has fallen in a forest, but nobody has observed the fallen tree, you can't say for sure it fell, but you can believe it fell. Believing in a God I feel is quite comparable to this analogy.
I have a couple of questions. I don't want to be nasty with these, I am merely interested to see how these questions are answered, as they are seemingly contrary to beliefs, yet often supported.
Question number one is for anyone who believes in a benevolent, all-powerful, omniscient God. Why does evil persist? If God is benevolent, all-powerful and omniscient, then why does he allow unnecessary evil to exist when he could prevent the suffering that came forth from those acts?
Secondly, for the creationists among us. How does evolution and the evidence on evolution fit in with creationism? The two don't seem to be able to coexist, because its ideas are so radically different.
I also understand that some people believe the Earth is about 10000 years old. I am interested to see whether there are supporters of that particular view on this forum and if so, how they would explain the existance of anything over 10000 years ago, for example galaxies hundreds of thousands of lightyears away from us.


I am not good with the whole creationism or evolution debate so I will respectfully not answer that. Just so I don't make a fool out of myself lol

As for you first question read what I wrote above about free will. Humans were created with free will. To say that it is G-Ds fault for all the evil in the world takes away humans free will. There are bad people in the world, because that's how the world is. It's natural and works in natural ways. There is however a reason for everything, at least I believe.

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#15 Lady Deadpool

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 07:38 AM

-you can't SEE God, how do you know He's there?

As Einstein had said (i hope it was him in that huge dialogue) you can't see the teacher's brain, does that mean it doesn't exist? That question doesn't bug me at all, because for me that's the most fascinating thing about faith. You just know he's there, you feel it. The thing is that it is the most common thing an Atheist or a person who wants guidance to believe asks a religious person. And there's no sufficient answer to that, because if there was one everyone would believe. I also have said before that what if God turns out not to exist? So what? I would have spent my entire life feeling great in believing in a loving God. So what?
Anyways my opinion is that you see God everyday. You just choose not to see that you see.

-why do bad things happen to good people?

These is the question that bugs me the most. Sometimes it frustrates me a lot. Truth is bad things -and good- happen to everyone. We just focus more on bad things that happen to good people, because we see it as not fair on behalf of God. We focus on little children and innocent people dying everyday and we ask ourselves why. We can answer that we live on Earth, on the kingdom of devil, where bad people have the power and they go unpunished, and good people are always taking the fault. Leaders waging wars and become wealthier, the poor and good people die in the process. And we ask why? Where is God. Why isn't He doing anything? Well, God has a plan for us humans, and He loves all the same. If he intervened right here right now, what's the point of free will. He shows us the outcome of our actions. He left us free to choose our way of life and we became monsters, literally. The thing is that in most people it seems unfair, what's happening to good people whereas bad people are not being punished. It seems unfair for me who have faith in God, let alone to someone who's just trying to find a reason to believe. But i believe in God's justice. He tests each person in their own way, some more some less for His reasons.

My question really is then how do you handle the Jesus aspect? Meaning, Jesus is G-D for Christians and Jesus was male. So does it ever come up why a son and not a daughter? Why this actual male character? What is the answer given to that? I am just interested. I never thought about it till now because I never think of Jesus lol. Agree with you about having that father figure. But, I think most people would argue that it would be just as powerful to have a motherly figure. I am the opposite of you. I have grown up without a mother, and I can imagine it bringing comfort to have that. Of course I don't usually think of G-D as either gender at all. Rather just a parent figure.

I cannot speak for all Christians, i mean all religions follow a certain dogma, but when it comes to things you don't actually know/seen, everyone has a different approach. As you very well said God has no gender. He has a spiritual substance. We just refer to Him with a He, because that's how it's established in our language, it's a grammatical thing. In Greek it makes more sense because we have 3 the for male, female, neutral so when we also say "the man" it is male, but it actually means a "human being", which is both male and female. I don't know if i make any sense haha. I wish English was my first language i would be better to explain things so much better in a way. So yeah spirits have no gender. Angels have no gender. Same goes for Jesus in my opinion, he is God for us so he has no gender. We refer to Him as He, because of his human form. Same goes for mother Mary, she has no gender as a spirit, we remember her as a female form. Same, i think, happens to all the souls when they die.

Edited by Provehito In Altum, 10 February 2012 - 07:44 AM.

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#16 Monkey Cartwheels

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 02:46 AM

Don't know if anyone else had noticed. But there is a hell of a lot of Christians competing at the Olympics this year!

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#17 Karen

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 02:42 AM

yep it's true! which is awesomeeee :) is that you joe?? new usernames always get me
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#18 Monkey Cartwheels

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 12:33 PM

'tis Joe here

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#19 Monkey Cartwheels

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 11:06 AM

Dammit I need a new book to read. I hate not reading books....

Anyone know any good Christian Autobiographies?
So far I've got Brian Welch's, Fieldy's (also from KoRn) and Shawn Johnson: Winning Balance. Read all three of them more than once.
I'd rather something more like Winning Balance, not as dark as the other two.

Anyone know any auto/biographies that aren't to dark and heavy but really good reads?

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#20 Karen

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 08:45 PM

I can give you a couple of reccomendations, such as the book "Weird" by Greg Groeshel (not sure if that's exactly how it's spelled), not quite an autobiography but still good. Also, if you haven't read it, Blue Like Jazz by Donald Miller is FANTASTIC.
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