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I can see why people would want to make it a women's issue, and yeah I am sure there are some Muslim women that don't like covering their hair or wearing a Burqua. I think the burqua is a totally different thing though - that IS oppression in my eyes, but again, I haven't talked to a muslim woman to find out. I think that people make premature decisions without actually asking the people that it effects.
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[quote name='Karen' timestamp='1303696569' post='97989']
I can see why people would want to make it a women's issue, and yeah I am sure there are some Muslim women that don't like covering their hair or wearing a Burqua. I think the burqua is a totally different thing though - that IS oppression in my eyes, but again, I haven't talked to a muslim woman to find out. I think that people make premature decisions without actually asking the people that it effects.
[/quote]

I agree Karen! In my eyes, burkas are oppressive. The few Muslim women I have spoken to have agreed. Most do like the hijab do, many even find them beautiful and love wearing them! I worked with a muslim woman who had the most beautiful lace hijabs!
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[quote name='Arie' timestamp='1303876369' post='99044']
I agree Karen! In my eyes, burkas are oppressive. The few Muslim women I have spoken to have agreed. Most do like the hijab do, many even find them beautiful and love wearing them! I worked with a muslim woman who had the most beautiful lace hijabs!
[/quote]

Yeah I love hijabs too! I would honestly wear one if I could haha. I think they are amazing and so beautiful. I also think arabic/middle eastern women are just the most gorgeous, I love the skin color <3

But yeah, I think that there are all of these politicians deciding what should be done about burquas and mosques etc, but none of them never actually KNOW what it is like and so I wish they would poll the actual people whom it is effecting.
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It's true that muslim women are expected to "cover" themselves because showing too much hair or skin is considered indecent.

The thing that angers me about it is that it's MEN who will cause all the problems (in theory) but they expect WOMEN to take steps (covering yourself) to prevent it in everyday life.
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[quote name='130671' timestamp='1303933566' post='99398']

The thing that angers me about it is that it's MEN who will cause all the problems (in theory) but they expect WOMEN to take steps (covering yourself) to prevent it in everyday life.
[/quote]

I was just going to make this point! It's TRU in Judaism as well, we have to cover ourselves up because of men's thoughts ect. That has always made me angry! I see these Arab women dressed in burkas, but their husbands are wearing the most expensive clothes with not a care in the world. In Judaism too, women have to dress so modestly because men's thoughts might start to inappropriate areas. Why does a mans thoughts all of a sudden become my problem?
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[quote name='Arie' timestamp='1303936394' post='99440']
I was just going to make this point! It's TRU in Judaism as well, we have to cover ourselves up because of men's thoughts ect. That has always made me angry! I see these Arab women dressed in burkas, but their husbands are wearing the most expensive clothes with not a care in the world. In Judaism too, women have to dress so modestly because men's thoughts might start to inappropriate areas. Why does a mans thoughts all of a sudden become my problem?
[/quote]

are you going to cover your hair when you get married arie?
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[quote name='Karen' timestamp='1303954091' post='99534']
are you going to cover your hair when you get married arie?
[/quote]

Yes, for me it's not really an option not too. But I am not so strict on it. Meaning, I am not going to wear a wig or even cover all my hair. I will let some stick out and wear scarves or cute hats.
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[quote name='Arie' timestamp='1303958961' post='99546']
Yes, for me it's not really an option not too. But I am not so strict on it. Meaning, I am not going to wear a wig or even cover all my hair. I will let some stick out and wear scarves or cute hats.
[/quote]

Ahh, what are the strictest requirements? Wigs, you say? O.o that seems a little intense to me! are there certain times when you have to cover your hair? like in your house is it ok to not?
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[quote name='Karen' timestamp='1303999411' post='99635']
Ahh, what are the strictest requirements? Wigs, you say? O.o that seems a little intense to me! are there certain times when you have to cover your hair? like in your house is it ok to not?
[/quote]

Like everything in religion, there are a million different opinions haha. In my opinion, yes wearing a wig is the strictest opinion. You have to cover your hair at all times. Most agree that you can uncover it in your own house. There is a big discussion around wether you can uncover it in your house in the presence of people who are not family members. I do know women who wont even uncover their hair around their daughters. Like every religion, we have our extremists too. I will uncover my hair in my house. And, I won't cover all my hair. I will wear cute scarves or hats and such lol.
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I'm not religious, but I believe in God. since I was young I've been crazy about learning about the spiritual world, in fact I think about it most of the time haha. I notice the strangest things all the time, which makes me philosophise for hours on on end about the most random stuff. I love sitting quietly and observing nature, that is when the answers to my questions start to reveal themselves. :ohyeah:

I follow Tao and I was lucky to meet my Teacher a few years ago, who has taught me the way of the Tao (which is not a religion if anyone thinks so). Tao is the word that refers to the silent and formless, independent and immutable, constantly moving and always harmonious something, the mother of all things in the universe. It was born before the creation of Heaven and Earth. Also known as 'God' to religions.

For me, it's not about following rituals and religions, but about applying your knowledge from whatever holy source you're reading or learning from to every day life, and always observing everything around you including yourself. It's very hard to be in tune with your mind and soul all the time. But when you are, everything flows into its own pattern around you. It's very important to observe your thoughts, words and actions, because what you sow is what you reap.
I think everyone has all the knowledge about following the word of God, but most of us never apply it to our lives when we have to. It's always easier to get angry, be ignorant, be lazy, etc etc. If all of us lived consciously, the system we're allowing to dictate our lives right now would be resisted, because it's one f****d up system but everyone is still like tra la la, I live in my comfort zone, who gives a crap about the rest. It's disgusting. But that's another topic right there.

Also,I believe everyone has a different way of communicating with God.

Oh, and I think God couldn't care less about whether your hair is covered or not, God is most likely more concerned with why we care so much about our friggin overrrated commercialised hair but not so much about the kids who're getting raped, or us citizens getting screwed over by big chops and not doing anything about it. I rate that's what God is more concerned about. Seriously, God is not an entity sitting up there with "his" pencil and paper ticking off our how well we do our made up rituals. Edited by halleluJah
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  • 2 months later...
[quote name='halleluJah' timestamp='1304168991' post='100439']
I follow Tao and I was lucky to meet my Teacher a few years ago, who has taught me the way of the Tao (which is not a religion if anyone thinks so). Tao is the word that refers to the silent and formless, independent and immutable, constantly moving and always harmonious something, the mother of all things in the universe. It was born before the creation of Heaven and Earth. Also known as 'God' to religions.

For me, it's not about following rituals and religions, but about applying your knowledge from whatever holy source you're reading or learning from to every day life, and always observing everything around you including yourself.

I think everyone has all the knowledge about following the word of God, but most of us never apply it to our lives when we have to. It's always easier to get angry, be ignorant, be lazy, etc etc. If all of us lived consciously, the system we're allowing to dictate our lives right now would be resisted, because it's one f****d up system but everyone is still like tra la la, I live in my comfort zone, who gives a crap about the rest. It's disgusting. But that's another topic right there.

Also,I believe everyone has a different way of communicating with God.

Oh, and I think God couldn't care less about whether your hair is covered or not, God is most likely more concerned with why we care so much about our friggin overrrated commercialised hair but not so much about the kids who're getting raped, or us citizens getting screwed over by big chops and not doing anything about it. I rate that's what God is more concerned about. Seriously, God is not an entity sitting up there with "his" pencil and paper ticking off our how well we do our made up rituals.
[/quote]

Ahhh I'm so sorry I didn't respond to this sooner!

But anyway. Tao seems like a really cool belief system and I think it is great that you are learning to be in touch with yourself and the earth at the same time. I read somewhere that prayer is a lot like meditation, in fact, it is a form of meditation in itself. The brain works the same way and it's a very good way of relaxing. I just think that it's really great to be able to harmonize with yourself and come to peace with yourself and it creates a great cycle of peace and prosperity. It might not come in the form of groundbreaking, earth shattering realizations or epiphanies, but as Ghandi said, "be the change you want to see in the world". I think a lot of people say it, but they don't live it. And I firmly believe that by improving ourselves we can pass this down to our kids, and so on, and it will create a cycle of peace.

I also agree with you that God probably isn't checking of things in His ledger, but I do admire the Jewish and Muslim commitment to cover their hair because I think it shows great respect for their religion and for themselves as well. I've just always thought it was cool. Some people take it to the extreme, of course, like full body burquas and such. But I can definitely admire any woman who is so in touch with their religion that they will take on a commitment for themselves. If I'm not mistaken, a woman in Islam doesn't technically have to cover themselves, its a commitment that the women choose to make at, I think, 13 or so. Something like that. I just think it's a really dedicated view and I've always admired women who can take on that responsibility. :)
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  • 4 weeks later...
I used to be a hardcore atheist. If anyone can remember how I was. Before I was an atheist however, I was a wiccan. I feel like I'm the only Pagan here. I came back to my "religion" last year. Something very spiritual happened to me and I was drawn back in an instant.

Since I'm a Pagan (Celtic) Wiccan, I'm a practicing witch. This doesn't mean I cast spells on people to hurt them. I follow the Wiccan rede which states, [url="http://www.wicca.com/celtic/wicca/rede.htm"][b]"An Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will"[/b][/url]. Which basically means, do what you think is best for you. Wiccans don't believe in a heaven or a hell. There is no real punishment system in our faith. The only real thing we see is, if you do bad then it could be expected that you receive bad back. If you do good, you may receive good back. However, the rede is not meant for people to exploit it and do good deeds solely for this. One should do good deeds to make one feel good.

I do cast spells. I cast protection spells on my home, on myself and I protect myself from negative energy. I believe in the Earth. I do not believe in a God. I do not believe in a Goddess. I'm not that type of Wiccan. Some Wiccans do believe in the God and the Goddess. I believe sole in the Earth and her powers. I believe that the Earth is a living, breathing creature that should be respected at all times. I believe in Wind, Fire, Earth, Water and Spirit. Those are the points on the pentagram.

[img]http://www.getreligion.org/wp-content/photos/Pentacle.gif[/img]
White: Spirit. Red: Fire. Green: Earth. Blue: Water. Yellow: Wind (or Air) Note: When using candles in a ritual, setting up an alter should be done like this. Directions are also important to Wiccans.

The pentagram is not or rather [b]should not[/b] be used for evil or ill intent. If it is, I believe that spells will backfire, rituals will fail and harm will come out of it. Not only will you hurt yourself but you might end up hurting those around you. Magick isn't something to be messed with. It should be taken with care and respected.

If anyone has questions on how we preform rituals or spells, feel free to ask me. :) Edited by wunderbar
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[quote name='wunderbar' timestamp='1313638418' post='148461']
I used to be a hardcore atheist. If anyone can remember how I was. Before I was an atheist however, I was a wiccan. I feel like I'm the only Pagan here. I came back to my "religion" last year. Something very spiritual happened to me and I was drawn back in an instant.

Since I'm a Pagan (Celtic) Wiccan, I'm a practicing witch. This doesn't mean I cast spells on people to hurt them. I follow the Wiccan rede which states, [url="http://www.wicca.com/celtic/wicca/rede.htm"][b]"An Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will"[/b][/url]. Which basically means, do what you think is best for you. Wiccans don't believe in a heaven or a hell. There is no real punishment system in our faith. The only real thing we see is, if you do bad then it could be expected that you receive bad back. If you do good, you may receive good back. However, the rede is not meant for people to exploit it and do good deeds solely for this. One should do good deeds to make one feel good.

I do cast spells. I cast protection spells on my home, on myself and I protect myself from negative energy. I believe in the Earth. I do not believe in a God. I do not believe in a Goddess. I'm not that type of Wiccan. Some Wiccans do believe in the God and the Goddess. I believe sole in the Earth and her powers. I believe that the Earth is a living, breathing creature that should be respected at all times. I believe in Wind, Fire, Earth, Water and Spirit. Those are the points on the pentagram.

[img]http://www.getreligion.org/wp-content/photos/Pentacle.gif[/img]
White: Spirit. Red: Fire. Green: Earth. Blue: Water. Yellow: Wind (or Air) Note: When using candles in a ritual, setting up an alter should be done like this. Directions are also important to Wiccans.

The pentagram is not or rather [b]should not[/b] be used for evil or ill intent. If it is, I believe that spells will backfire, rituals will fail and harm will come out of it. Not only will you hurt yourself but you might end up hurting those around you. Magick isn't something to be messed with. It should be taken with care and respected.

If anyone has questions on how we preform rituals or spells, feel free to ask me. :)
[/quote]

YAY! Thank you so much for posting! I actually made a thread about wicca/paganism, so feel free to post in that and get ideas going and stuff, that would be much appreciated! I've been frustrated for a long time about the stereotypes of wiccans and I'm very happy you posted!
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[quote name='Karen' timestamp='1313799324' post='149486']
YAY! Thank you so much for posting! I actually made a thread about wicca/paganism, so feel free to post in that and get ideas going and stuff, that would be much appreciated! I've been frustrated for a long time about the stereotypes of wiccans and I'm very happy you posted!
[/quote]
Sure! I'm glad someone is interested in it. I will look for the thread and we can talk about it there if you like. :)
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  • 5 months later...

I am necroing this thread, because I seem to be the first atheist that posts in this particular subforum. If anyone wishes to ask me about my beliefs or wants to know what I think of something that a religion says particularly, then fire away. Ask anything, and I really do mean anything you like.

Edited by Majestic122
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I'm very glad you came to the forum! When I created it, I meant for it to be a place where EVERYONE could express their beliefs, following a religion or not.

 

So my question is, what is your opinion on people who do follow a belief system? In my case, there have been lots of people who think I'm an idiot for following Christianity, but I think a lot of people like to assume they know what the Bible says, or what Christianity is all about. It's frustrating because I would like to show people that God isn't this wrathful, spiteful Being.

 

Also, if you absolutely had to choose a religion, what do you think you would go for? :)

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I'm very glad you came to the forum! When I created it, I meant for it to be a place where EVERYONE could express their beliefs, following a religion or not.

 

So my question is, what is your opinion on people who do follow a belief system? In my case, there have been lots of people who think I'm an idiot for following Christianity, but I think a lot of people like to assume they know what the Bible says, or what Christianity is all about. It's frustrating because I would like to show people that God isn't this wrathful, spiteful Being.

 

Also, if you absolutely had to choose a religion, what do you think you would go for? :)

I'm very anti-prejudice, so I try to value people based on their behaviour towards me, not based on their belief in a higher power. But I'm guessing you won't be satisfied with this answer (I know I wouldn't) so here you go.

I think that people who do follow a belief system should do that if they choose that, but they should be very careful not confuse belief with truth. You can't go and claim something is true just because the Bible says so.

Having said that, I strongly oppose teaching creationism in schools (any school), because evolution has been proven correct. I think strict religious schools should be banned. I have once seen an example in a documentary where literally everything had a reference to religion. It was practically brainwashing. Children's minds work so they believe anything a parent says, up to a certain age. This is to have the highest chance of survival and reproduction (knock, knock, evolution!), for an infant cannot have a critical mind and try to disprove the rule of not going over the edge of a cliff, for example. Therefore, in my opinion, we must be very careful when dealing with teaching children religion.

As for what religion I would choose, that is definitely an interesting question. Pantheism is very interesting, and it would probably be the one I would go for. I like the idea of Nature as God, because nature (and indeed us humans too) is wonderful. Pantheism is actually pretty close to my beliefs right now, except that I don't see nature as God.

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I'm very anti-prejudice, so I try to value people based on their behaviour towards me, not based on their belief in a higher power. But I'm guessing you won't be satisfied with this answer (I know I wouldn't) so here you go.

I think that people who do follow a belief system should do that if they choose that, but they should be very careful not confuse belief with truth. You can't go and claim something is true just because the Bible says so.

Having said that, I strongly oppose teaching creationism in schools (any school), because evolution has been proven correct. I think strict religious schools should be banned. I have once seen an example in a documentary where literally everything had a reference to religion. It was practically brainwashing. Children's minds work so they believe anything a parent says, up to a certain age. This is to have the highest chance of survival and reproduction (knock, knock, evolution!), for an infant cannot have a critical mind and try to disprove the rule of not going over the edge of a cliff, for example. Therefore, in my opinion, we must be very careful when dealing with teaching children religion.

As for what religion I would choose, that is definitely an interesting question. Pantheism is very interesting, and it would probably be the one I would go for. I like the idea of Nature as God, because nature (and indeed us humans too) is wonderful. Pantheism is actually pretty close to my beliefs right now, except that I don't see nature as God.

 

Mmm, this is true. The Bible is actually a very interesting book, to study and also to learn from. I used to think it was really boring, until I actually started reading it. I think there are lots of things in it that are based around the culture of 2000 years ago, but the Gospels are what modern-day Christianity is (or at least should be) based on. HOWEVER. People's interpretations of the Gospels differ and that is why there are so many problems among different religious. I honestly haven't met one Christian who has exactly the same theology. I personally believe that Jesus is the epitome of Love, which is God, and that we must do our best to spread love by loving our neighbor (ALL of our neighbors), serving, and helping those that can't help themselves. I also think that is Jesus had to choose a political side, he'd probably be more on the socialistic side. I mean, I can't imagine Jesus turning someone away:

 

"Jesus, please heal me!"

JC - "Sorry, your health insurance plan only covers leprosy, not blindness. And you've already had two exorcisms in the past six months when your plan CLEARLY says that you can only have one"

 

Somehow, I don't think that would happen. :P

 

Creationism *sigh* What a topic, no? Hahaha. Well. I believe in evolution, considering that it has been scientifically proven, but I also think that it was God who started evolution, and who created the Big Bang. And no, I don't mean a guy in a white robe with a beard...I just mean a force higher than ourselves, bigger than we can possibly imagine. If you really want to hear all my theology, you can message me lol. I don't want to get into all of it here :P

 

As for Pantheism, I think it's very good to be thankful for nature but I personally wouldn't consider it God. I think God created nature, of course, and therefore it must be taken care of and appreciated. I also think that we have to give respect to the Earth because it does provide for us.

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  • 1 month later...

I'm an atheist and therefore have no religion. Have been all my life. Yes I have morals (some :P ) I do have a reason for living. yes I have a reason to be atheist. Yes i have reasons for not being religious. no i don't believe in a deity, and yes i have reasons for it :)

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I'm an atheist and therefore have no religion. Have been all my life. Yes I have morals (some :P ) I do have a reason for living. yes I have a reason to be atheist. Yes i have reasons for not being religious. no i don't believe in a deity, and yes i have reasons for it :)

 

I, for One, am interested in those reasons. :3 And I'm being completely legitimately serious. Tell Us Your story!

 

~Rev

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Haha wonderful :P

 

Reasons for living: I enjoy it and it would be an inconvenience to stop. But mainly because I enjoy it. Guess I'm a bit of a Utilitarian at heart :puh:

 

Reason to be an atheist and not being religious: Well, I guess it's mostly the latter. I don't understand why we (humans) need to see answers in everything immediately. My general perception of religion is a historical one. 10000 years ago when we lived in caves and knew nothing bout what was around us, fine, there was so much unknown that having some all powerful thing which is responsible for it all was useful (yes, responsible, not just the cause. Important word difference). However as the age of reason and age of science drew open and the age of religion closed, we began to understand more and more about what was happening around us. For example, we now know what happened 10^-43 seconds after the big bang. This means that we categorically know that unless God caused the Big Bang, we are not the result of a deity. Following this line, we have proved Genesis wrong. Copernecus (Gellileo) proved the Church wrong when he showed that everything did not revolve around the Earth. Darwin proved religion wrong when he proved Evolution. Each and every time the Church suffers a loss of faith, they draw further back and say, for example, that since no one else knew at the time, how were they supposed to know? The point is that since so much of (I'm picking on Xianity here) has been shown to be wrong, why should we believe any of it? Going back to the start of this long point, why do we need a deity to satisfied in life? I have no NEED of a deity in my life. I'm content as I am.

 

Deity ^^above

 

Ultimately, I have no need to believe in a deity, no need to have a religion, and no need to have "faith". I find scientific proof (as is the nature of proof) far more plausable than religion, hence why people who say they're "felt God" irritate me so much because, after digging, they often have very little idea about which they are talking.

 

Sorry for the length. i'm sure I've missed loads out though :P Any questions class? :P

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Hi Matthew! Thanks for posting, I'm very glad you felt like you could post here. Welcome :D I'm Karen, the mod of this forum. I'm sorry I didn't reply to you sooner, I have been swamped with school and work and observation hours and everything else under the sun.

 

It is very interesting to look at religion from a historical point (and the Bible as well), I agree! I personally believe that Genesis, and a lot of the numbers in Genesis, are exaggerations of what they should be because people 2000 years ago didn't have a concept of time like we do. For example, in Genesis, Rebecca (Abraham's wife) gave birth when she was 90 years old. I don't think she was literally 90, I think it was their way of saying she was older than the average women giving birth during that time period.

 

You pose a tough question! Why do we need a deity to be safisfied in life? One of the things you said earlier is that we don't need to see the answers in everything immediately. In Christianity, we definitely don't see the answers in things immediately! When I pray to God, I expect Him to take His sweet time getting back to me :P nothing happens quickly, and this is to help establish faith and patience that everything will turn out okay. The Bible isn't supposed to give us all the answers. It is a point of reference, yes, but we also have to realize that even though it was divinely inspired, it was written by men and all humans are flawed. The only perfect Being is God.

 

I don't think it's fair to point at the Church and say that it just blames other people for their lack of understanding. As I said before, the Church, like everything except nature, is manmade. There are obviously going to be mistakes and errors and lacks of judgement. The Church today still has many issues surrounding it and as a Christian I don't agree with everything the Church (and by Church I don't mean the Catholic church specifically, I mean some of the leaders surrounding Christianity) says or does, but if I back away, what does that make me? I wouldn't stop loving my mom just because she's made some mistakes in her life. The Church, also, isn't just religious leaders. It's the people that make up the church! WE are the Church, and I think that is so, so important. So when someone looks at the Church we can't just look at the power organizations. We also have to look at what the Church consists of. Do Christians know better today? Some of them, yes. Are there still some that believe the Earth is 9000 years old? Yes. Sometimes it's out of ignorance (I'm sure you know that in some places they just don't teach evolution) but from what I've seen most Christians are fully aware of the science surrounding the Earth's creation (and this is just one example, there are many others like this, I'm sure) but they choose to believe in what the Bible says because it's their faith, it's what they believe in, and if it makes them happy, okay!

 

Also, many Christians take the basis for a lot of their beliefs from the New Testament, mostly because it focuses on Jesus and His life, the main part of Christianity.

 

I hope that answered some of your questions or opened up discussion! Feel free to message me at any time, and of course everyone else is free to answer as well.

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  • 7 months later...

I don't really belong to one "religion". I am more on the spiritual level. I am a practicing shaman and medium. Yes, most people might think it's wonky or not true but it's what I do. If I were to classify myself, I suppose I fit in with Wiccans/Pagans.

 

We have a thread on it but it's dead somewhere lol. I guess not enough interest in it. I do practice magic sometimes. It's nothing like what's in the movies or in books. We use different things because we believe they do different things. I have never done black magic and it annoys me when people think all Wiccans do this. In fact, because of our rede (Harm None) we technically cannot do black magic. When you see black magic it is usually Satanists, Santeria or Voodoo. Santeria and Voodoo are not all black, again, for the most part they are good people. I practice some Santeria as well as some Voodoo. I also am learning a more Native American approach but we'll see where that goes.

 

I suppose all of this is very "new age" but I hate that term.

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I've actually been researching paganism and wicca just out of personal interest. I was talking with my boyfriend about what I want to do when we move into an apartment together and I said I wanted to do a native american smudging ceremony to get rid of bad energy. If it makes us feel better, why not? If it has actual spiritual properties then it'll work. If not, then I'll just be waving around a stick of sage, you know? No harm, no foul. Learning about smudging led me to research paganism. I had known a bit about it but I wanted to find out more. One thing I've noticed is that at a lot of wiccan ceremonies, they dress up and a lot of the time it seems more for show, you know? Have you ever encountered pagans/shamans that are doing it for the wrong reasons?

 

I would also like to reinforce that paganism is NOT satanism. To be a satanist, you have to believe that the christian god is dead, and pagans and wiccans don't believe in a specific denomination god - correct me if I'm wrong. I think people just get scared of what they don't know. :)

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