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Faith vs. Religion


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#21 Karen

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 01:11 AM

You make Christianity seem like it's some sort of materialised procedure. Like, us Christian are little robots who visit the same place and hear the same things every sunday without understanding them, without praying? Excuse me, i don\t wanna seem blunt but you give the wrong impression about Christianity to people who don;t know it well so you make Arie think that Judaism differs from Christianity because Judaism is based on having a relationship with God? Whereas Christianity isn't? Please now, i hope you mean something else.
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My religion is completely based on a relationship with God as well. Yes my religion, not my relationship with God. We go to Church, we pray! We listen to the chants, we pray! We get lost in the Church, we come closer to God, we feel, we pray! We're not what you said above. My religion is a living religion.


YAYY everyone cleared their conflicts up! I wouldn't have said anything but I think that confronting different beliefs is really really REALLY important to understanding them, even if someone doesn't accept it. So good job guys *thumbs up* :D

I think Joe meant religion in a really basic sense of the word - like the ritual aspect of it. Yes religion usually includes a relationship with God (I don't think anyone would say that that's not important) but a big part of religion is going to church, temple, mosque, etc, and performing the rituals. Like in the Catholic church, it's about eating the body and blood of Christ.

That being said, the ritual as well as the relationship combined are what *really* makes religion. Religion is a super complex thing and there is no way that any religion will EVER be uncomplicated.

I also agree with you Joe, that many people try to shy away from the "Flanders" type of person, and most religion is sooooo much more than that. For example, when I say I'm catholic to people the first reaction I get from a lot of them is "uhh all priests are pedophiles. you dont believe in gay marriage and abortion?" and I'm like "okay. well firstly, not all priests are pedophiles, these pedophile are PEOPLE which happened to be PRIESTS. Secondly, I do support gay marriage, and yes, I am pro-choice." and people are just kinda like :o

There have also been many a time where I've had to forgo something because I had church, or a holy day. Perfect example: next sunday, my school is going to see Spamalot and I was all set to go, and then at church I was reminded that it is Palm Sunday and I'm reading -_- So I'm really bummed that I can't go, but hey, that's how it works sometimes.
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#22 Will

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 03:15 AM

religion IS NOT relationship with God. Religion is almost a relationship with other people. I like this definition from Wikipedia: "Religion is a cultural system that creates powerful and long-lasting meaning, by establishing symbols that relate humanity to beliefs and values". As you can see, the god doesn't make the religion; in fact, there are religion without gods.

Judaism... There are a lot of rules in there xD Nah, I have nothing with Judaism.


#23 Monkey Cartwheels

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 03:57 AM

^^^Oh noes, here comes trouble!

Religion is all down to interpretation of the very word.

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#24 Emmas Friend

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 10:42 AM

Generally most people associate God with religion, I don't think you can seperate them.
Everybody sees God in a different way, and their relationship with their religion is different. Some people like to go to church/temple etc., and show their faith in public. Others prefer to have a more private faith. They are equally religious, but just show their faith in different ways.
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#25 Karen

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 01:15 PM

religion IS NOT relationship with God. Religion is almost a relationship with other people. I like this definition from Wikipedia: "Religion is a cultural system that creates powerful and long-lasting meaning, by establishing symbols that relate humanity to beliefs and values". As you can see, the god doesn't make the religion; in fact, there are religion without gods.

Judaism... There are a lot of rules in there xD Nah, I have nothing with Judaism.


That's a great point, Will. Religion doesn't necessarily have to have a god or at least, a Western interpretation of a god, but it's something that moves through cultures and connects people. It shapes us just as much as we shape it. I think a lot of people are getting confused about putting God into the term religion. Some religions have it, others don't - but even if they don't have a god or God, they still can be religions just because it's just as much a cultural movement as well as a belief system.
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#26 Lady Deadpool

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 02:22 PM

Like in the Catholic church, it's about eating the body and blood of Christ.

That is not just a ritual. That's one of the holiest mysteries of Faith. You accept the blood and flesh of Christ, you have to be ready for it. It's not just a ritual you have to do just because you call yourself religious. It's a special bond. I guess that's why i can't understand why some people think that religion is a different thing than a relationship with God. To me it's the same. You can have a relationship with God, or faith without being religious yes, but from the moment you call yourself religious you instantly have faith in those rituals, it's an important part of your relationship with God. It's not just rituals, or an everyday procedure you HAVE to do because society tells you to. So i guess i'm done with explaining myself on this matter. We all have different views on that, i reckon.

Some people like to go to church/temple etc., and show their faith in public. Others prefer to have a more private faith. They are equally religious, but just show their faith in different ways.

I totally agree with that. How many times you go to church doesn't make you a "better" person than others. It is however, a very important place for your faith.

[font="Century Gothic"]religion IS NOT relationship with God. Religion is almost a relationship with other people. I like this definition from Wikipedia: "Religion is a cultural system that creates powerful and long-lasting meaning, by establishing symbols that relate humanity to beliefs and values". As you can see, the god doesn't make the religion; in fact, there are religion without gods.

Cultural system? So you go to church or you believe because society makes you? Or you go to church to meet new people? Or you just you don't have a mind of your own and you blindly read what the internet or wikipedia say?
Oh so the church is like a cafeteria.

I can see how one religion can have one God, or many Gods, or other entities as Gods (like Nature, trees etc) but i can't see any religion without any God. What religion is that?

Edited by something better, 11 April 2011 - 02:26 PM.

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#27 Arie

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 03:08 PM

I second you dina. I do not understand how religion can exist without G-D or some sort of belied. With out it, religion is not religion. Without a belief it's just some actions you are doing. Prayer without belief is just talking. I can't understand how you can separate G-D from religion. I don't do certain things because society tells me too. That's crazy. I do them because I follow G-D and in my religion we have certain things we do to follow them. Farther, I don't do these things to have a relationship with other people. Hahahaha what I pray so that I am closer to other people?! That makes no sense! I dd it so that I have a relationship with G-D. G-D made everything in my religion. I have no idea which you are talking about Will. But, I don't follow a person, I follow G-D.

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#28 Will

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 04:51 PM

Cultural system? So you go to church or you believe because society makes you? Or you go to church to meet new people? Or you just you don't have a mind of your own and you blindly read what the internet or wikipedia say?
Oh so the church is like a cafeteria.

I can see how one religion can have one God, or many Gods, or other entities as Gods (like Nature, trees etc) but i can't see any religion without any God. What religion is that?

Budahism is a religion without god, for example. There's a religion about the metal and about star treck...

Yeah, it's a cultural system. You can't put me as an example, because I'm not a religious. A lot of religious are religious because of their parents, or because of their culture; you can't deny it...


@Arie ("I don't do certain things because society tells me too. That's crazy. I do them because I follow G-D")
Here's my question, how do you know that the things you do are the things that God wants?

#29 Arie

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 05:17 PM

Here's my question, how do you know that the things you do are the things that God wants?


I am choosing not to answer this question because I know you Will. you could care less about the answer. You just want to spin me around so you can prove you are right. I am not interested in arguing with you about this over and over again. This is a place for people to come and learn about religions. This is a place where people respect each other and are curious. I have seen your posts in the Christianity thread and I know whats going to happen if I choose to answer. My opinion and ideas are not going to change about this matter.

My point in responding to you initially was just to share my opinion to everyone on here, I disagree. I believe religion has everything to do with G-D and I don't understand how you cn tak G-D , or any belief, put of at equation. If you do, then you don't have a religion. You have a community.

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#30 Will

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 05:22 PM

I am choosing not to answer this question because I know you Will. you could care less about the answer. You just want to spin me around so you can prove you are right. I am not interested in arguing with you about this over and over again. This is a place for people to come and learn about religions. This is a place where people respect each other and are curious. I have seen your posts in the Christianity thread and I know whats going to happen if I choose to answer. My opinion and ideas are not going to change about this matter.

I saw this coming xD Ok, fair enough. But I think the other guys want to know the answer ;O

I believe religion has everything to do with G-D and I don't understand how you cn tak G-D , or any belief, put of at equation. If you do, then you don't have a religion. You have a community.

You're right Arie, I don't have a religion. I have a relationship with God

Edited by Will, 11 April 2011 - 05:25 PM.


#31 Arie

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 06:01 PM

I saw this coming xD Ok, fair enough. But I think the other guys want to know the answer ;O


You're right Arie, I don't have a religion. I have a relationship with God


So because I am part of a religion I don't have a relationship with G-D?! That is extremely offensive Will.

Edited by Arie, 11 April 2011 - 06:01 PM.

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#32 Lady Deadpool

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 06:50 PM

I am choosing not to answer this question because I know you Will. you could care less about the answer. You just want to spin me around so you can prove you are right. I am not interested in arguing with you about this over and over again. This is a place for people to come and learn about religions. This is a place where people respect each other and are curious. I have seen your posts in the Christianity thread and I know whats going to happen if I choose to answer. My opinion and ideas are not going to change about this matter.

My point in responding to you initially was just to share my opinion to everyone on here, I disagree. I believe religion has everything to do with G-D and I don't understand how you cn tak G-D , or any belief, put of at equation. If you do, then you don't have a religion. You have a community.

I love you, i really really love you!

You're right Arie, I don't have a religion. I have a relationship with God[/font]

I've been saying in the past posts that for some people, including myself, being religious presupposes you have faith and you share a special bond with God. I got insulted when i thought Joe meant what you're saying now, and yet you say it now in an an offensive manner. Yes i got your opinion that according to you religion is NOT a relationship with God, but what you're implying over here is upseting^

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#33 Will

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 08:31 PM

So because I am part of a religion I don't have a relationship with G-D?! That is extremely offensive Will.

If you understand that from what I said, I'm not gonna waste my time with you xD

Ok, for those who don't get upset easily: I like this illustration, what do you think of that?


#34 Arie

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 08:56 PM

@Dina, aw love you too Hun!

@Will, that is rude. As Keren staited in the rules, please be nice and respectful of others.

If you understand that from what I said, I'm not gonna waste my time with you xD

this is very disrespectful, if you can't be respectful of other people's opinions than maybe this isn't the right thread for you to have a discussion in.

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#35 Karen

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 09:17 PM

I think the real debate here is the difference between Christianity and other religions.So from what I've gathered from everybody's comments the issue is with how a person represents themselves within religion or not.

I liked your graphic Will. I thought it illustrated the differences between Christianity and the actual act of religion very well. It's interesting to see how Christians within their religion combine everything. Religion is so complex to think about! Veeeeery interesting. It seems from the graphic that the "religion" column shows people as very independent and reliant on themselves while the christian column defines them as dependent on God. While this is in a way true, it's important not to generalize because I'm sure there are many Christians (myself included) that aren't lacking in responsibility and are working their way to a salvation (or whatever other afterlife there may be).

Each column has their pros in cons, such as the Religion column "trusting self", and christianity "trusting God" - whichever is better as seen as in the eye of the beholder.

That's what religion AND faith really is, isn't it? People are so different and complex, I don't think there can be one set definition of "relgion" or "faith". My personal opinion is that when religion is stripped down to the BARE bones, like, the most baaaaaasic of definitions, it looks like a ritual that may or may not involve god and also can revolve around cultures - will's right, there are religions such as jedi, the flying spaghetti monster (which symbolizes a religious parody), etc, that represent things that are significant today. Faith can be much more ambiguous and can be included with or without relgion.

Interesting opinions, guys. But lets keep it a little more level headed, shall we? No accusations please and thank you!
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#36 Emmas Friend

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 09:22 PM

Come on everybody ! I know discussing Religion/God can be an emotive issue, but lets not descend to personal attacks on people. We all have different opinions, so lets just respect that. :yesyes:
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#37 130671

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Posted 22 April 2011 - 04:49 PM

I'd never have thought this would get so emotional.

And we haven't even gotten into discussing that christian doctrine "...there's no way to salvation but the lord..." and what it implies regarding other faiths/religions.

#38 Karen

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 12:46 AM

I'd never have thought this would get so emotional.

And we haven't even gotten into discussing that christian doctrine "...there's no way to salvation but the lord..." and what it implies regarding other faiths/religions.


Mmm I have an interesting story about that. I was talking to my Uncle Mike tonight, who is extremely Catholic, and I was telling him how I was going to non-denominational christian worship the past few days and was talking about good friday today and he was like, "well, too bad you're not going to any catholic services. we know how to do it right." and I was like "mm...yeah. okay. it's the same God, I don't think it really matters."

That really, really frustrates me.
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#39 Revan

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 02:41 AM

My faith consists of and is based in Jesus Christ. Christ taught us that religion is irrelevant; what matters is your heart. Love for all fellow men, for God, and a relationship with Jesus Christ.

Mmm I have an interesting story about that. I was talking to my Uncle Mike tonight, who is extremely Catholic, and I was telling him how I was going to non-denominational christian worship the past few days and was talking about good friday today and he was like, "well, too bad you're not going to any catholic services. we know how to do it right." and I was like "mm...yeah. okay. it's the same God, I don't think it really matters."

That really, really frustrates me.


God once inspired me with a quaint little saying:

The one Zarathustra called Ahura Mazda, I follow.
The one Paul, John, and Peter called Jesus Christ, I follow.
The one Krishna called Brahman, I follow.
The one the American Indians called the Great Mystery, I follow.
The one Muhammad called Allah, I follow.
The one Moses called YHVH, I follow.
The One who named HIMSELF as I AM THAT I AM, I follow.
The Ultimate One that dwells throughout the entire universe, God, I follow, I worship, I love like I do no other.

I do believe that sums up your point.
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#40 Arie

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 02:45 AM

The one Zarathustra called Ahura Mazda, I follow.
The one Paul, John, and Peter called Jesus Christ, I follow.
The one Krishna called Brahman, I follow.
The one the American Indians called the Great Mystery, I follow.
The one Muhammad called Allah, I follow.
The one Moses called YHVH, I follow.
The One who named HIMSELF as I AM THAT I AM, I follow.
The Ultimate One that dwells throughout the entire universe, God, I follow, I worship, I love like I do no other.

I do believe that sums up your point.


I love this!!! Thanks for sharing that!!!

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