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Homosexuality and Religion.


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[quote name='wunderbar' timestamp='1317070261' post='159836']
I'm sorry for the double post (perhaps a mod could incorporate this into my other post?) but this might make people think twice about "disagreeing" with homosexuality:

[img]http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lrzxldWoOv1r2v2rfo1_500.gif[/img]
"Jamey took his own life on Saturday, he was being bullied for being Gay for years. Jamey was found dead outside his home Sunday morning, but Amherst police would not release any details on how he killed himself. Students had been posting hate comments with gay references on his Formspring account, “JAMIE IS STUPID, GAY, FAT ANND UGLY. HE MUST DIE!” one post said. Another read, “I wouldn’t care if you died. No one would. So just do it :) It would make everyone WAY more happier!” Now that Jamey’s gone, no one’s happier. May you rest in Paradise, Jamey. You deserve it. You’re definitely missed, by plenty. By strangers, by family, by relatives, by friends, by people you may have never known. Paws up forever."
-from Tumblr (and Twitter, yes he was a Lady Gaga fan)

Is that what God wants? Really? Does he want these kids bullied and killing themselves? It all stems from religion that breeds hatred. When a mother tells her child that being gay is wrong what do you think that kid is going to do to another child who is gay? It's sad and disgusting. Anyone who thinks someone should die for being gay should be ashamed of themselves. Anyone who thinks these kids are mislead, leading a lie or not right in God's eyes should be ashamed. If God is that cruel and petty then I rather not follow Him.
[/quote]
Really now? Blaming God for what HUMANS do? Really? That's kind of played out. Bullying is aweful IN GENERAL. Not only gay people get bullied. Fat people get bullied too, skinny people get bullied, foreign people get bullied. Nothing to do with God and everything to do with humans. I hate bullying, it should be punished as a crime. And i'm so sorry for that kid and for many others who have committed suicide due to bullying. But a lot of people who bully aren't even Christians or religious people in general. They are just stupid uneducated kids/people who think they have power of others and who can't accept anyone who is different than them (according to the role models society shows). So please don't tell me that's what God really wants. Christ said Do not spread hatred or violence or whatever on My name.

Some of them use religion and God as an excuse to spread hatred? Well you use these kind of incidents as an excuse to blame God. It's equally wrong.
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[quote]Affection is love. Humans show the same thing that parrots do. The word "love" is nothing more than chemicals and genetic instinct. Humans are animals. We are primates. What makes you think we are any better than other animals?[/quote]
[font="Century Gothic"]There's not an "ultimate" definition of love, and you should know. I know we're animals, but we are rationals, and we can decide what we do. Other animals are tied to their instincts.[/font]

[quote]Perhaps it is your English then. Where are you from?[/quote]
[font="Century Gothic"]I'm dominican. I think you're a little hispanic, aren't you? hehe
[/font]
[quote]Taking away rights of those who need them and saying they do not have love or souls is showing hate.[/quote]
[font="Century Gothic"]I've not said they don't have soul or love. You're making things out.[/font]

[quote]Also, here are some sites with lists to contradictions in the Bible.[/quote]
[font="Century Gothic"]I've read those sources before. I don't see contradictions but peopletrying to belittle the Bible by taking several passages off of context.
[/font]
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[quote name='wunderbar' timestamp='1317070261' post='159836']
I'm sorry for the double post (perhaps a mod could incorporate this into my other post?) but this might make people think twice about "disagreeing" with homosexuality:

[img]http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lrzxldWoOv1r2v2rfo1_500.gif[/img]
"Jamey took his own life on Saturday, he was being bullied for being Gay for years. Jamey was found dead outside his home Sunday morning, but Amherst police would not release any details on how he killed himself. Students had been posting hate comments with gay references on his Formspring account, “JAMIE IS STUPID, GAY, FAT ANND UGLY. HE MUST DIE!” one post said. Another read, “I wouldn’t care if you died. No one would. So just do it :) It would make everyone WAY more happier!” Now that Jamey’s gone, no one’s happier. May you rest in Paradise, Jamey. You deserve it. You’re definitely missed, by plenty. By strangers, by family, by relatives, by friends, by people you may have never known. Paws up forever."
-from Tumblr (and Twitter, yes he was a Lady Gaga fan)

Is that what God wants? Really? Does he want these kids bullied and killing themselves? It all stems from religion that breeds hatred. When a mother tells her child that being gay is wrong what do you think that kid is going to do to another child who is gay? It's sad and disgusting. Anyone who thinks someone should die for being gay should be ashamed of themselves. Anyone who thinks these kids are mislead, leading a lie or not right in God's eyes should be ashamed. If God is that cruel and petty then I rather not follow Him.
[/quote]
Poor argument bro, really poor. We aren't told to do that anywhere, we don't promote violence and bullying against it. We disagree with it, what a stupid thing to say.
To call our God cruel and petty over the work of humans is the stupidest thing to say. There is no work of God involved in him killing himself, or the bullies. Your idea of Christians is pretty blind.

That doesn't make me think twice about "disagreeing" with homosexuality. It just reminds me of how cruel Godless people can be, and what leading a Godless life can cause you to do to yourself
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[quote name='wheneverythingfalls' timestamp='1317119804' post='159981']
Poor argument bro, really poor. We aren't told to do that anywhere, we don't promote violence and bullying against it. We disagree with it, what a stupid thing to say.
To call our God cruel and petty over the work of humans is the stupidest thing to say. There is no work of God involved in him killing himself, or the bullies. Your idea of Christians is pretty blind.

That doesn't make me think twice about "disagreeing" with homosexuality. It just reminds me of how cruel Godless people can be, and what leading a Godless life can cause you to do to yourself
[/quote]

Keep it back on track, Joe, we're not talking about being believing in God or not.

Everyone has some interesting points here, especially about the Bible and the time it was written in. It's interesting to see about how being gay translates into a religion and that always goes back to the holy book.

Ok, new question - what do you all think about people who are gay, AND religious - do you think a lot are conflicted? Do you think they are getting the support they need from their religious place? If you were someone who is gay and religious, how would you feel? And if there's someone here who is both gay and religious, PLEASEEE input. That would be great :)
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[quote name='Karen' timestamp='1317163218' post='160205']
Ok, new question - what do you all think about people who are gay, AND religious - do you think a lot are conflicted? Do you think they are getting the support they need from their religious place? If you were someone who is gay and religious, how would you feel? And if there's someone here who is both gay and religious, PLEASEEE input. That would be great :)
[/quote]
[font="Century Gothic"]I think gays who are religious aren't in conflict. Why do I think such thing?
- Not all religions condemn homosexuality.
- People can be religious in their own way.[/font]
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[quote name='Karen' timestamp='1317163218' post='160205']
Ok, new question - what do you all think about people who are gay, AND religious - do you think a lot are conflicted? Do you think they are getting the support they need from their religious place? If you were someone who is gay and religious, how would you feel? And if there's someone here who is both gay and religious, PLEASEEE input. That would be great :)
[/quote]
That's a tricky one. If they are a Christian, its written as being wrong, then it becomes a very delicate process. I think if they are willing to change or see another way, then people can help them. If not then its between them and God only.
I don't know enough about other religions and beliefs to really say anything else
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[quote name='Karen' timestamp='1317163218' post='160205']
Ok, new question - what do you all think about people who are gay, AND religious - do you think a lot are conflicted? Do you think they are getting the support they need from their religious place? If you were someone who is gay and religious, how would you feel? And if there's someone here who is both gay and religious, PLEASEEE input. That would be great :)
[/quote]
Some of them are not, like Will said some people can be religious in their "own" way. They may believe in God but they are not religious per cey. All they need to think is that God is Love and there should be no rule to worry about.

Some of them are though. I would be in a great conflict, i am as a matter of fact, even if i'm not gay. Imagine believing in a religion that tells you what you do is wrong and unnatural and a sin, and you must fight it, but you can't fight it cuz you're born this way it's who you are.
Homosexual people -even religious ones- don't get the support they need from their religious place i think. That's why the vast majority of them end up hating religion and God. Because people tell them it's wrong and they don't accept them the way they are and they take their rights away (marriage, adoption, bullying..)
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[quote name='Will' timestamp='1317170323' post='160227']
[font="Century Gothic"]I think gays who are religious aren't in conflict. Why do I think such thing?
- Not all religions condemn homosexuality.
- People can be religious in their own way.[/font]
[/quote]

That's a really good point Will, people don't necessarily have to follow a religious denomination in order to have a connection with God or a higher power. :)

[quote name='wheneverythingfalls' timestamp='1317207934' post='160285']
That's a tricky one. If they are a Christian, its written as being wrong, then it becomes a very delicate process. I think if they are willing to change or see another way, then people can help them. If not then its between them and God only.
I don't know enough about other religions and beliefs to really say anything else
[/quote]

Hmm, but then it gets into the discussion if gay people really can change - I think it's an inherent thing, people don't really choose it. I don't know if anyone will ever really know, though, it's still being debated about.


[quote name='Provehito In Altum' timestamp='1317219686' post='160296']
Some of them are not, like Will said some people can be religious in their "own" way. They may believe in God but they are not religious per cey. All they need to think is that God is Love and there should be no rule to worry about.

Some of them are though. I would be in a great conflict, i am as a matter of fact, even if i'm not gay. Imagine believing in a religion that tells you what you do is wrong and unnatural and a sin, and you must fight it, but you can't fight it cuz you're born this way it's who you are.
Homosexual people -even religious ones- don't get the support they need from their religious place i think. That's why the vast majority of them end up hating religion and God. Because people tell them it's wrong and they don't accept them the way they are and they take their rights away (marriage, adoption, bullying..)
[/quote]

I like your thinking, Dina, that God is love. He really is, no? To be religious can be a tough thing to follow sometimes, there are so many rules and regulations and I agree with you that even though I'm not gay, it's still hard to be my own person and also be a practicing Christian and not lose that sense of myself. I think also outside of the church, gay, transgender, transvestite people etc, don't get the support they need. It's really hard to find a safe place, and I can't even imagine to be rejected from a religion. I also agree with you that that is why a lot of gay people end up hating religion.
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  • 3 weeks later...
I posted the suicide to show a HUMAN side to HOMOSEXUALITY. But, I guess that got lost. :\ Gays are people. Gays can be 12 year old boys who are lost and bullied. God doesn't want you to "disagree" or "hate" these children or people. It's a human being. God is LOVE.

[quote name='Provehito In Altum' timestamp='1317070971' post='159840']
Really now? Blaming God for what HUMANS do? Really? That's kind of played out. Bullying is aweful IN GENERAL. Not only gay people get bullied. Fat people get bullied too, skinny people get bullied, foreign people get bullied. Nothing to do with God and everything to do with humans. I hate bullying, it should be punished as a crime. And i'm so sorry for that kid and for many others who have committed suicide due to bullying. But a lot of people who bully aren't even Christians or religious people in general. They are just stupid uneducated kids/people who think they have power of others and who can't accept anyone who is different than them (according to the role models society shows). So please don't tell me that's what God really wants. Christ said Do not spread hatred or violence or whatever on My name.

Some of them use religion and God as an excuse to spread hatred? Well you use these kind of incidents as an excuse to blame God. It's equally wrong.
[/quote]
If you read, I never said I blamed GOD. I blame the HUMANS who take GOD'S WORD and pass HATE onto their CHILDREN.

Bullying is WRONG. Hence why I speak at schools to stop not only bullying of the LGBT community but of others as well. If you read the GLSEN and GLADD sites, they are hoping to stop ALL bullying. They don't just focus on gays but you must admit LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transsexual/Gender) kids get it the most.

I have a student at a middle school who is transsexual. She has known since she was 3 years old that he wanted to be a she. Her parents are Christians. They take the time to put her on hormone blockers. This child is growing up to be a beautiful woman and she is so happy, confident and brilliant. She gets bullied on a daily basis. Not many of the other children in her grade get it as bad as she does. They put things on her locker, stuff her head into a toilet. The parents of children are using GOD as an EXCUSE to hate this child and I think that is WRONG. Do not use God to hate children for being who they are! It's a child! No matter if this child is gay, straight, trans, bisexual, short, tall, fat, thin, black, white, hispanic.. whatever! People are people and GOD in His wisdom LOVES US ALL!

[quote name='Will' timestamp='1317080520' post='159887']
[font="Century Gothic"]There's not an "ultimate" definition of love, and you should know. I know we're animals, but we are rationals, and we can decide what we do. Other animals are tied to their instincts.[/font][/quote]
Animals rationalize. I can tell you right now a list of animals who do:
Dolphins
Elephants
Penguins
Seagulls
Swans
Wolves
Coyotes
Domestic Dogs
Domestic Cats
Feral Cats
Pumas
Cougars

If you need proof on this, I have articles. The problem is, most of what I have learned was in college courses and in text books. I can't really post that to the internet unless I contact my old professor and have him write up a PDF file. XD

[quote][font="Century Gothic"]I'm dominican. I think you're a little hispanic, aren't you? hehe
[/font][/quote]
Yep, I am. I'm part Cuban. lol

[quote][font="Century Gothic"]I've not said they don't have soul or love. You're making things out.[/font][/quote]
You did say animals don't feel love. o.O


[quote][font="Century Gothic"]I've read those sources before. I don't see contradictions but peopletrying to belittle the Bible by taking several passages off of context.
[/font]
[/quote]
Then that's your opinion. I can try to educate in a non threatening way. That's the most I can do. I can't change the world but I can perhaps change some people.


[quote name='wheneverythingfalls' timestamp='1317119804' post='159981']
Poor argument bro, really poor. We aren't told to do that anywhere, we don't promote violence and bullying against it. We disagree with it, what a stupid thing to say.
To call our God cruel and petty over the work of humans is the stupidest thing to say. There is no work of God involved in him killing himself, or the bullies. Your idea of Christians is pretty blind.

That doesn't make me think twice about "disagreeing" with homosexuality. It just reminds me of how cruel Godless people can be, and what leading a Godless life can cause you to do to yourself
[/quote]
Look at what I said above, and I quote myself yet again because it seems we aren't getting what the post was about:
[quote]If you read, I never said I blamed GOD. I blame the HUMANS who take GOD'S WORD and pass HATE onto their CHILDREN.[/quote]

And I'm not "blind". I learned about the Christian faith and for your information I was Christian for many, many years before I converted to Wicca. So that was a low blow and I'm very insulted you would say such a thing.

[quote name='Karen' timestamp='1317163218' post='160205']
Ok, new question - what do you all think about people who are gay, AND religious - do you think a lot are conflicted? Do you think they are getting the support they need from their religious place? If you were someone who is gay and religious, how would you feel? And if there's someone here who is both gay and religious, PLEASEEE input. That would be great :)
[/quote]
People who are gay and religious usually don't take the Bible literally. They just believe in God and believe that he loves all of His children the same. That is just my own personal experience with gays who are religious. I'm Bisexual and religious (in my own way). I believe the Horned God and the Goddess made us the way we need to be. The Earth wouldn't be making us this way if there were not a propose. In Wicca, we believe that Gays are here to help with the overpopulation of our planet. This year alone we are up to 7 billion people. That's a lot of mouths to feed.

[quote name='Provehito In Altum' timestamp='1317219686' post='160296']
Some of them are not, like Will said some people can be religious in their "own" way. They may believe in God but they are not religious per cey. All they need to think is that God is Love and there should be no rule to worry about.

Some of them are though. I would be in a great conflict, i am as a matter of fact, even if i'm not gay. Imagine believing in a religion that tells you what you do is wrong and unnatural and a sin, and you must fight it, but you can't fight it cuz you're born this way it's who you are.
Homosexual people -even religious ones- don't get the support they need from their religious place i think. That's why the vast majority of them end up hating religion and God. Because people tell them it's wrong and they don't accept them the way they are and they take their rights away (marriage, adoption, bullying..)
[/quote]
Okay, this makes sense. I have to hand it to you here. I wish more people would understand that in the Bible it's not exactly clear whether or not it's hated. The book was written in a tricky way and a lot of religious gay people I know tend to look at it as "that's not what he meant". There is a section in the Bible where Paul states that Gays are just "unclean people". And if you notice, the Bible focuses on Gay men, not Gay Women. It's as if Women do not exist. So as a woman, isn't it contradiction to seek women's rights when the Bible views you as less than an object? Just a question.

[quote name='Karen' timestamp='1317244645' post='160427']
Hmm, but then it gets into the discussion if gay people really can change - I think it's an inherent thing, people don't really choose it. I don't know if anyone will ever really know, though, it's still being debated about.

[/quote]
He believes that Gays choose to be who they are which I think is partly true but that it happens in childhood very early (around a few months old). If people were more educated then I think religion would be what it's meant to be, about love and faith.

Honestly when I say education I mean the following:
Go to a GLADD, PFLAG, GLSEN or other non-profit LGBT organization and take a gender course or a sexuality course.
Read a book on human biology...
Take a class.
Speak to people who are LGBT. Learn from them and have them tell you their experience.

People are ... ignorant. This isn't a bad thing. I'm ignorant in my own way for things. I don't know much about the Muslim religion even though I studied theology. So I'm now learning about it. I talk to muslims, I read about it, etc..

Knowledge is power and it can live in harmony with religion! Edited by wunderbar
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[quote]I posted the suicide to show a HUMAN side to HOMOSEXUALITY. But, I guess that got lost. :\ Gays are people. Gays can be 12 year old boys who are lost and bullied. God doesn't want you to "disagree" or "hate" these children or people. It's a human being. God is LOVE.[/quote]
[font="Century Gothic"]Nobody here is hating them.[/font]

[quote]If you need proof on this, I have articles. The problem is, most of what I have learned was in college courses and in text books.[/quote]
[font="Century Gothic"]I've read articles, I've watched documentary. I'm not talking without know about the topic.

[b]Rationalize:[/b] [i]Attempt to explain or justify (one's own or another's behavior or attitude) with logical, plausible reasons, even if these are not true. To apply logic or reason to something.[/i][/font]

[quote]You did say animals don't feel love. o.O[/quote]
[font="Century Gothic"]Oh, yes, I did (and I still believe they don't feel love, and, animals having soul? C'mom). Then, sorry, I didn't write it properly. What I wanted to say is that I'm not showing hate.[/font]

[quote]Then that's your opinion. I can try to educate in a non threatening way. That's the most I can do. I can't change the world but I can perhaps change some people.[/quote]
[font="Century Gothic"]But change what kind of people? People who believe in the bible? If so, why to change them?[/font]

[font="Century Gothic"]Anyway, I'm not in mood of keeping the debate. If you want to tell me something, pm me. And... go [url="http://forum.emma-watson.net/index.php?/topic/2264-science-technology/"]here[/url] and give us your sign ;D[/font] Edited by Will
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[quote name='wunderbar' timestamp='1318628970' post='164038']
Look at what I said above, and I quote myself yet again because it seems we aren't getting what the post was about:
[/quote]

[i]"Is that what God wants? Really? Does he want these kids bullied and killing themselves? It all stems from religion that breeds hatred"[/i]
[i]"If God is that cruel and petty then I rather not follow Him"[/i]

You have clearly blamed God right there. You say a religion that breeds hatred, not a religion that has been misinterpreted.
And I don't even need to justify that second one. You've clearly blamed God. Why say you haven't?
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[quote name='Will' timestamp='1318638512' post='164053']
[font="Century Gothic"]Nobody here is hating them.[/font][/quote]
Saying you "disagree" with it is just as bad as saying you hate them. What would happen if your child was gay? And this is just out of curiosity.


[quote][font="Century Gothic"]I've read articles, I've watched documentary. I'm not talking without know about the topic.

[b]Rationalize:[/b] [i]Attempt to explain or justify (one's own or another's behavior or attitude) with logical, plausible reasons, even if these are not true. To apply logic or reason to something.[/i][/font][/quote]
Yes, elephants have been known to be [b]logical[/b]. You do know they plan attacks on humans who torture them? They plan out strategics and so forth. You should read up on elephants.

Dolphins have language. Birds communicate. Birds even have a grammar system. They even have their own code of ethics. If that's not rationalization then I don't know what is.


[quote][font="Century Gothic"]Oh, yes, I did (and I still believe they don't feel love, and, animals having soul? C'mom). Then, sorry, I didn't write it properly. What I wanted to say is that I'm not showing hate.[/font][/quote]
You think animals don't have souls? P_p Meh, as Lady Gaga said best: “Well, that's your opinion, isn't it? And I'm not about to waste my time trying to change it.”

[quote][font="Century Gothic"]But change what kind of people? People who believe in the bible? If so, why to change them?[/font]

[font="Century Gothic"]Anyway, I'm not in mood of keeping the debate. If you want to tell me something, pm me. And... go [url="http://forum.emma-watson.net/index.php?/topic/2264-science-technology/"]here[/url] and give us your sign ;D[/font]
[/quote]
I don't think I want to change the mind of someone who believes in the Bible. What I want to accomplish (which it seems I'm failing at) is showing people that GLBT people are.. well, people. There is no reason to disagree or hate them for who they are based on what something (or someone) tells you. You can believe in God (or a higher power) and still love everyone. I just don't understand it. I thought that Jesus tried to show compassion, wisdom and understanding.

As for the science thing, yes, I signed it. That is a great idea!

[quote name='wheneverythingfalls' timestamp='1318643876' post='164058']
[i]"Is that what God wants? Really? Does he want these kids bullied and killing themselves? It all stems from religion that breeds hatred"[/i]
[i]"If God is that cruel and petty then I rather not follow Him"[/i]

You have clearly blamed God right there. You say a religion that breeds hatred, not a religion that has been misinterpreted.
And I don't even need to justify that second one. You've clearly blamed God. Why say you haven't?
[/quote]
No. I did not blame God. I blame the people who take the "word of God" and use it to hate people. I blame the people who teach their children that being gay is wrong and a sin. I blame the people who think God is so cruel and petty that He in His wisdom would denounce those who are gay. I blame the people who give hatred to their children and then those children in return bring hatred onto others.

That is what I was trying to construe but I suppose it was lost in translation.
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[quote name='wunderbar' timestamp='1318673449' post='164087']
No. I did not blame God. I blame the people who take the "word of God" and use it to hate people. I blame the people who teach their children that being gay is wrong and a sin. I blame the people who think God is so cruel and petty that He in His wisdom would denounce those who are gay. I blame the people who give hatred to their children and then those children in return bring hatred onto others.

That is what I was trying to construe but I suppose it was lost in translation.
[/quote]
Why do you think its hatred?
The people that drove that kid to suicide are not Christian. Believe me, no Christian (With exception of Westborough) is going to do that. That is today's broken society picking on kids for being different, they are the same kids that pick on me for listening to Heavy Metal, the same ones that pick on Muslims, Jews, Wiccans, Christians and everyone.

BELIEVE ME, there is no TRUE Christian that is going to bring their children up to hate gays, to me it seems as though you've put all of us in the same basket. We aren't like that, I have gay mates and I treat them no different than my Christian, black, Muslim, Jewish, Atheist, Agnostic, Catholic, Indian, Asian or what ever mates. We are the same, we are equal, none of us are perfect and everyone sins.
Being gay is no worse to me than watching porn, or blaspheming, or what ever. Sin is sin, all sin is equal.

I GUARANTEE that the kids who drove that guy to kill himself are NOT Christian
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[font="Century Gothic"]Saying you "disagree" with it is just as bad as saying you hate them. What would happen if your child was gay? And this is just out of curiosity.[/font]
[font="Century Gothic"]I think you have a problem of concepts.

[b]Hate:[/b] [i]Feel intense or passionate dislike for (someone)[/i].

If my child was gay? You mean if my child was born gay? If so, people aren't born gay. But in case I'm wrong, I'd love him/her anyway.[/font]
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[quote name='Will' timestamp='1318684369' post='164098']
[font="Century Gothic"]Saying you "disagree" with it is just as bad as saying you hate them. What would happen if your child was gay? And this is just out of curiosity.[/font]
[font="Century Gothic"]I think you have a problem of concepts.

[b]Hate:[/b] [i]Feel intense or passionate dislike for (someone)[/i].

If my child was gay? You mean if my child was born gay? If so, people aren't born gay. But in case I'm wrong, I'd love him/her anyway.[/font]
[/quote]

And that is the most important thing :) Thank you, Will.
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  • 1 month later...

Why do you think its hatred?

The people that drove that kid to suicide are not Christian. Believe me, no Christian (With exception of Westborough) is going to do that. That is today's broken society picking on kids for being different, they are the same kids that pick on me for listening to Heavy Metal, the same ones that pick on Muslims, Jews, Wiccans, Christians and everyone.

 

BELIEVE ME, there is no TRUE Christian that is going to bring their children up to hate gays, to me it seems as though you've put all of us in the same basket. We aren't like that, I have gay mates and I treat them no different than my Christian, black, Muslim, Jewish, Atheist, Agnostic, Catholic, Indian, Asian or what ever mates. We are the same, we are equal, none of us are perfect and everyone sins.

Being gay is no worse to me than watching porn, or blaspheming, or what ever. Sin is sin, all sin is equal.

 

I GUARANTEE that the kids who drove that guy to kill himself are NOT Christian

You may say they aren't true, but to them, they are doing the work of God. Sadly, that is what we have in the word. It's not just them, there are Muslims who do the same thing. People will always find a shield from which to spew their hatred and judgement from. Trust me.

 

And being gay is not a sin... it's natural. Watching porn is not something to be ashamed of. It's all something natural that we want. Sex is natural. Nudity is natural. We should embrace what the Earth Goddess gave us, not be ashamed of it. However, I'm going to just say.. agree to disagree because I am not going to change your opinion nor are you going to change mine.

 

Saying you "disagree" with it is just as bad as saying you hate them. What would happen if your child was gay? And this is just out of curiosity.

I think you have a problem of concepts.

 

Hate: Feel intense or passionate dislike for (someone).

 

If my child was gay? You mean if my child was born gay? If so, people aren't born gay. But in case I'm wrong, I'd love him/her anyway.

To me, and this is my opinion if you disagree or say something natural is a sin or it's unnatural then you are in turn spewing out something negative. That is not what God wants. When is humanity going to live in Peace? *sigh* But I suppose without conflict there can be no peace.

 

If you disagree, then you can be inclined to do negative things. Such as: deny someone a job based on their sexuality or something more serve. I've had so-called Christians fire me just because they "didn't agree" with my "lifestyle" because it's a "choice".

 

I have a hard time with "choice". I've said this time and time again: sexuality is natural. Just as someone is straight, someone is gay or bisexual. Or there are people born into this world such as myself (being transsexual and being bisexual). Now, is this a matter of nurture where there is a subconscious choice somewhere in the brain? No one knows for sure.

 

I was brought up in a place where:

-Love everyone no matter what.

-Do unto others as you would like done to you.

-Do not hurt others or yourself.

-Everyone is equal.

 

Denying someone something just based on your opinion of their sex life is cruel and unjust. Gays have a right to a full life just like anyone else.

 

You would love them but would you try accept them and just let them be? It sickens me that we have "camps" to make gay people straight. It sickens me even more that out of fear some people buy into that. :\ The world just makes me sad.

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  • 2 months later...

We all did born in this world like an innocent kids we didn't born homosexuality , that thing the people their self chose to be homosexuality or no As the emo,punk,...etc

your opinion is so incredibly wrong its quite humorous.

it seems so childish to believe that people will wake up one day and all of a sudden prefer the same sex. people ARE born homosexual. Fact. Conclusive. google it.

 

They all did born like this? No and most of us refuse those people cuz what they do is against nature right? And being a homosexuality according to me is a sin cuz it's against nature really! And people who do say god like homosexuality and how can god hate seriously people non of us have the right to say something like this and if you were a truly religious you would follow your religion in everything and don't judge for something like this and again god didn't create homosexuality!

God created EVERYTHING, didnt he?

 

i dont care at all that people hate homosexuals, they have their reasons. But please dont say it's 'against nature' like its all up to religious and straight folks to decide what 'natures' course' is... humans have built airplanes even though we are land dwelling mammals, so are aircrafts against human nature? lets all stone aircrafts to death because the good book says things that are against nature are BAAAAAAAAAAAD.

 

i do agree that if you're truly religious you will follow your religion in most things and wholeheartedly agree with it (not everything), but if you're truly HUMAN your compassion and love for your fellow species should decide, not what an ancient book tells you.

 

here's a video Dreamzy, it might help.

 

Seems to me that most Religions are against Gay lifestyles.

 

But would God want us to turn away and shun these people, because they are different to us ?

 

i concur. well said.

 

 

 

 

religious people who think being gay is wrong and against nature only makes religion look bad. I was part of the church for many years and from what i'e learned God wouldnt be God if he hated gays, or hated anyone for that matter. and he wouldnt hate gays because he made them! XD

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your opinion is so incredibly wrong its quite humorous.

it seems so childish to believe that people will wake up one day and all of a sudden prefer the same sex. people ARE born homosexual. Fact. Conclusive. google it.

 

 

God created EVERYTHING, didnt he?

 

i do agree that if you're truly religious you will follow your religion in most things and wholeheartedly agree with it (not everything), but if you're truly HUMAN your compassion and love for your fellow species should decide, not what an ancient book tells you.

 

 

religious people who think being gay is wrong and against nature only makes religion look bad. I was part of the church for many years and from what i'e learned God wouldnt be God if he hated gays, or hated anyone for that matter. and he wouldnt hate gays because he made them! XD

 

First, please don't launch personal attacks on someone because you don't agree with their opinion, calling someone childish isn't going to get any closer to unity.

 

Secondly, I also agree with you that God created everything, gay, bi, transgender, pansexual, etc etc etc people alike. I fully accept gay people because I believe that every single person was made perfectly, straight or otherwise.

 

I also think that the Bible was written in a very different time, and there were different social rules driving some of the things being written. And this isn't to say that the Bible isn't accurate in a lot of what it says, because it is - I just think that 2000 years ago, it was a very different society.

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Jesus the Christ did not condemn anyOne in His physical day, and He does not do it today.

 

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. John 3:17

 

If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day. For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.

 

We condemn ourselves. God's always offered nothing but acceptance, forgiveness, and love.

 

~Revan

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  • 2 months later...

Personally I have absolutely nothing against gay people. I think they're awesome. I'm friends with a few!

 

But there are several verses in the Bible that suggest homosexuality is a sin. That isn't something that can be changed. We don't have the right to say "gay people are cool therefore I think homosexuality is right!" Just because society glamorizes it (and trust me, it really does make it look glorious and like a beautiful thing.....) doesn't mean it is right in God's eyes. Everything in the Bible is inspired by God. It wasn't written by ignorant, biased, judgmental people. It was written by God (theoretically speaking). We as mere human beings do not have the right to change what God has said, nor do we have the right to question why he has said it.

 

We were all born into sin. As a child, you were not born perfect. You were born a child having no knowledge of right and wrong- you had to learn it all. We all struggle with different sins. Each one of us has something different that we struggle with. And there are people that struggle with homosexuality. Yes, they were "born that way."

 

The thing with God, though, is, it doesn't matter how many years you've struggled with your sin. It doesn't matter how many times you've denied him. It doesn't matter how many times you've been blind to his word. The second you deny yourself, pick up your cross, and follow him, you will be saved.

 

I'm not saying that homosexuals are condemned to hell. Because guess what... we all are really. We all deserve death and we all deserve to suffer and die on the cross as Jesus did.

 

But because Jesus did that for us, we don't have to. No matter what sin we struggle with, the second we deny ourselves rather than God, that very second, we are saved.

 

I don't want to enter heaven and see Jesus and say "Lord, Lord! Do you not know me? I mean, I prayed and did mission work and I was a nice person and loved everyone!" only to have him look at me and say "Depart from me, you evildoer. I do not know you." (Matt. 7:21-23)

 

Sure we may be good people and do good things, but if we blatantly sin against God and are so blind to his word, he doesn't want us.

 

Would you want to be in a relationship with somebody who lied to you all the time, stole from you, cheated on you, gossiped about you, abused you, etc?

 

God doesn't want to be in a relationship with us either when we can't even take his word for truth. When we can't give up those sins in our life to follow him. When we can't pour our hearts and souls into loving him... And that's all God really wants from us. Love. A relationship. For us to live for him and spread his love.

 

So I guess that's it for me on this. I've had many many many arguments with people on the subject of homosexuality. I'm kinda worn out of it. I just feel like anything anyone does to not show love to God is a big disappointment to him, no matter what it is. I don't support homosexuality, but I'm not against it. I don't judge the liars, the thieves, the adulterers, etc. I don't judge homosexuals either. Everybody is the same in my eyes. Human.

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I heard something recently.

It raises some decent debate. It stated that people are never born gay, they are however, born with "tendencies". We've all known a guy in our schools, workplaces even families maybe that where a little bit to feminine, that looked and acted like he could be gay but actually wasn't.

Society has made being gay an acceptable thing and isn't frowned upon as it once was, so these people with "tendencies" are picked up by people and are pushed, being told that they are gay and its alright to be gay, almost peer pressured into being gay. Obviously its a quite subtle thing not straight out. Others that are already gay also can pick up on these people and convince them they are gay also.

Same applies to women.

 

I think its a pretty sound argument to be honest. Homosexuality is a sin, and God gives everyone a fair chance and free will so he isn't going to allow people to be born a homosexual, but just as some people are more athletic than others, more artistic than others, more butch than others, some can be more feminine or masculine than others.

 

What do you lot think?

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I heard something recently.

It raises some decent debate. It stated that people are never born gay, they are however, born with "tendencies". We've all known a guy in our schools, workplaces even families maybe that where a little bit to feminine, that looked and acted like he could be gay but actually wasn't.

Society has made being gay an acceptable thing and isn't frowned upon as it once was, so these people with "tendencies" are picked up by people and are pushed, being told that they are gay and its alright to be gay, almost peer pressured into being gay. Obviously its a quite subtle thing not straight out. Others that are already gay also can pick up on these people and convince them they are gay also.

Same applies to women.

This is really interesting! Let me give you two examples.

 

A real life example, i know this Greek girl i met on tumblr she ofc supports LGBTQ rights, says she's bisexual but after having a relationship with a woman she decided she's a lesbian. I met her this summer at the concert we went to together and she ofc admitted that she supports gay right 100% but she's perfectly straight and she only pretends she's gay because she instantly got way more followers and apparently nowadays it's "cool to be gay."

 

The second example; i remember a conversation i had read not long ago on FB and frankly it had annoyed me a lot. There was this guy i'm friends with who tbh looks quite feminine; He straighten his hair, no facial or chest hair, green eyes, he acts kinda feminine and he likes to get dressed well. He has stated many times he is not gay and still underneath one of his pictures they were two gay guys, a couple if i remember correctly, that were saying stuff like "you're so gay heart heart" "when will you finally admit you're one of us" and he was clearly annoyed with all this like "guys knock it off i'm not" and they kept going on saying stuff like you should not feel ashamed to admit who you truly are and maybe right now you're confused but you know who you are and stuff like that. Until his gf started commenting and put an end to it.

 

I've seen similar situations online quite a bunch of them. Some people are so easily influenced by peer pressure and I actually think that many of them actually start a homosexual relationship, not because they know they're gay or because they want to experiment, but simply because being gay is in fashion right now. It's actually really interesting because all some people talk about is a few barbaric incidents of fanatics who treat gay people in an inhuman way and all people focus on are that incidents, and they claim being gay is so difficult and all, when at the same time in reality all I personally see is EVERYONE supporting gay rights and all many young people think of is being gay because it's kinda cool and different.

 

Before someone gets offended by this, i don't refer to homosexual people who've known they're homosexuals all their lives and they know what they want etc etc. I'm talking about peer pressure and how sometimes people of young age can be so influenced.

 

 

An other interesting observation is that:

We all know it's stupid and annoying when a gay guy says "hey i think i'm gay" and his straight friends or family go like "no you're not you think you are but you're straight like you always were and blah". We've all seen that at least once and gay people become furious when they deal with situations like this. And I agree. But when it's the other way round, no one even talks. I mean people go like "no I am not gay, i am straight i've always been straight. NOT that i have anything against gays ofc" . It's as if straight people have to always justify how they support gay rights after they claim they're straight. Like they're afraid of being called racists.

Edited by Nekyia
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Look, I'm fatigued and in pain tonight. I'm not going to go through a long discussion on homosexuality and religion. It's such a long debate and moot point by now. I'm not sure why some people feel the need to discuss who is a "sinner," "saved," and "destined to hell" because of their orientation and who they feel love for. In fact, I think it's the most stupid thing ever to deny someone a right to religion and faith and/or support just because of a discovery that someone is homosexual.

 

Granted, I'm not homosexual, I'm bisexual...which for some weird reason may be considered worse in perception to others. I absolutely haven't a clue as to why, other than it not conforming to societal standards and categories. For the sake of discussion and pure honesty, I really do not care about what other people think about me given this "new" information. No one can walk up to my face and tell me that I have no right to live a religious life solely because of the fact that I am romantically attracted to both women and men. I am being straight up, no pun intended, honest when I say this. My relationship with God and attendance in church and fellowship with the Bible all have nothing to do with who sets limitations on me because of my belief. I can go on and on, but there isn't much need to, unless some of you are looking for a way to debate me and argue.

 

I refuse to believe in a God who dislikes me for any aspect of myself. Period. If that makes some people uncomfortable, then so be it. I'm very comfortable with myself and who I am, as God made me to be, so I will be open and transparent. People fit people into molds, God doesn't.

 

I know it seems radical, but it really isn't. Imagine, all your life, you accepted all your feelings outright...only to pick up on social norms and societal queues on what *correct* feelings you should feel and being told how God views people? Being invisible, feeling guilty, going through shame, and feeling extremely invalidated because of such a reiterated conviction that God doesn't place me as priority, according to others. Imagine having to confront these feelings all at once, given a practical situation in your life, and trying to come away from that situation still feeling vulnerable and unworthy and all these things you were told directly and indirectly you were and weren't? Welcome to the past year of my life.

 

Uncomfortable, much?

 

I've discovered that God, the Bible, and my church all have one thing in common...they are all liberating and affirm who I am. Granted, I struggle with testaments and Gospels like everyone else, but reviewing all of this in Theology classes has brought greater clarification to me. It is possible for queer and homosexual people alike to find their places in church and religion. Other people make a big deal out of something that really shouldn't be a major issue. We debate the stature of homosexual people in society all the time, instead of focusing on true issues of social justice. Issues such as people dying in war torn countries, children dying from Malaria still in developing countries, and women and men and children continuing to be the center of the human trafficking industry in the world (as in, their being victims).

 

And, yes, I've found a church that has accepted me for all that I am. I work with some really incredible people day in and day out on various projects, and they're are ALWAYS challenging me to broaden my mind and be just that much more open-minded. All three pastors/ministers at my church know of my orientation and they love me nonetheless. They are always happy to see me and see what kind of new ideas to come up with; and, I haven't told all of them yet...but I'm entertaining a much later future in seminary school.

 

That's the way it should be everywhere else, too. People, in general, should embrace the differences in their society instead of condemning them out of fear and hiding varying degrees of conscious and subconscious homophobia under the concept and existence of something called "religion".

 

Maybe, in that way, we can truly realize the good intention as to why some of us hold on to the belief and have a conviction of a Higher Power in our lives and the good it does for us, so we can spread that Good Wealth and intention to others, truly regardless of others' political, socioeconomical, psychological, ethnitcity/racial status, and sexual identity and orientation.

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Nobody has said we must not love homosexuals nor bisexuals, the thing is that it's a fact (you should know that since you have read the Bible and gone to church) being homosexual is a sin. We're all sinner, doing good things doesn't make anybody a better person or being homosexual doesn't make anybody a worse person.

 

Of course people in church are going to welcome you, if they're not, that'd be a weird church. However, being homosexual will still be a sin, because it doesn't depend to us, but to God.

 

But hey, God is the One who will judge at the end, and He is fair.

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Nobody has said we must not love homosexuals nor bisexuals, the thing is that it's a fact (you should know that since you have read the Bible and gone to church) being homosexual is a sin. We're all sinner, doing good things doesn't make anybody a better person or being homosexual doesn't make anybody a worse person.

 

Of course people in church are going to welcome you, if they're not, that'd be a weird church. However, being homosexual will still be a sin, because it doesn't depend to us, but to God.

 

But hey, God is the One who will judge at the end, and He is fair.

 

I personally don't believe being homosexual is a sin, Will. I've read the Bible, I know what's in it thank you very much. Churches DON'T have to be welcoming. You've not followed me around, have you? I guess you wouldn't be able to see authenticity and camraderie in my church either.

 

What's your intention in replying right after my post if what your post says pretty much is the same thing you've said throughout the entire thread?

 

The Bible was written thousands of years ago and is also written as an Inspired word of God, not to be considered AS God's Word and Final Say. Have you decided to go ahead and take classes to study it in a setting outside of church?

 

I'm tired. Night.

Edited by Kim.
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